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  #21  
Old 06-22-2012, 04:59 PM
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Shai Shai is offline
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That she's an old dog and probably has arthritis setting in and that I should switch her to Iams because it will prevent the inevitable skeletal deformities that come with the biologically hazardous and nutritionally deficient raw diet.
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ARCHX U-CD Kim MX MXJ NF CL3-SF RL3/2X/1X-COE CGC -- Golden Ditzhund, b. ~Mar'07
MACH ARCHX U-CD Webster MXB MJB RL3/2X/1X-COE CGC -- Flying Houdini, b. ~Jun'07
Mira CD JH MX MXB MXJ MJB CGC WCX -- Princess Cheeseface, b. Jul'09
Lodin -- Crazy Monkeybean, b. Dec'13
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  #22  
Old 06-24-2012, 11:14 AM
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Already so now that I've calmed down a little bit after our fabulous little excursion on Friday, here's the rundown:

Kim hurt herself a while ago. Tweaked her back running around the yard. I was throwing a ball for Mira and Kim decided she was going to Stop All Motion and ran to intercept Mira. At the last second she realized Mira did not give a flying **** if she was in the way, Mira was going top speed in a straight line to the ball anyway so Kim launched and jumped over Mira. Cleared her but landed a bit funny and was stiff the following day. Gave her time off etc etc and she seemed okay.

A month later she's zooming around the yard at 500mph in the morning then we head to an agility trial. She's really slow and I think okay she's tired from running around like an idiot. Go back the next day and now she's gaiting fine but she's jumping a little differently...she's not extending and rounding over the jumps like usual but instead seems to be trying to catch herself a bit like she protecting her back.

Okay.

So we pulled from all trials for the next month and start going to a DVM/chiro/PT/acupuncturist vet here that came extremely highly recommended by a lot of long-time agility folks. That's going well and she seems to be recovering, which bring us up to her coming down lame this week as in the OP.

I was terrified that it was something like a tick-born disease so we went in Friday. The SNAP test which apparently covers the local tick born illnesses came back negative.

So we started discussing alternatives. My first thought was that her back injury twinged which made her limp to protect it since back injuries are notorious for that (I should note that Kim showed no evidence of a limp and basically moved like a 1 year old pup the whole time she was there...). Vet said it's probably arthritis since she's an old dog. I noted she's barely 5. Vet said yeah well Irish Wolfhounds (the tech's breed of choice apparently) are geriatric at 5. I said Kim is not a Wolfhound and weighs under 50 lbs.

(Another note: not denying the possibility of early arthritis, just taking exception to calling her a senior dog at 5...)

So they asked what I fed her and I said she eats a raw diet so then it was she has scurvy from the raw diet and raw diets are filled with salmonella and are a stupid fad and I was a fool for falling into it. I said she's been back on raw for only a month since due to moving she and the rest of the crew ate kibble last year since I didn't think I had the space or resources to make sure they would have a good raw diet so it was unlikely that she developed scurvy prior to switch back to raw (her first injury) or in a month (current issue) especially since she gets Vit C on top of being able to produce her own, being a dog...was told there is no such thing as a good raw diet and I needed to switch her to either Purina or Iams (I believe they sold Iams in the lobby) and she would be much better but I should start her on a mild painkiller she'd need to be on for the rest of her life too just to be safe and "that other vet" (the DVM/PT/Chiro we've been seeing) had her on meds that were too strong for long term use (I noted they were never intended for long term use).

So at this point we were no closer to having an answer and she launched into stories of how complete and balanced and researched Iams is (I noted that the last time Kim was on Iams, for the first couple months we had her, she had chronic diarrhea and constant itching and rashes...) so I gave up and paid for the visit and the tick panel and left.

Had both her and Mira's backs gone over and adjusted yesterday...Kim was really out of whack (I could feel it but couldn't fix it). Mira was confirmed to be fine but we have over a month off agility right now so just wanted to make sure she was in good shape for a break and cross-training so she'd be fit and ready when we start up again.

Soooo there's a novel but that's where things stand right now. Kim is on leash restriction any time she's outdoors and supervised indoors at all time since she and Mira are not allowed to play while she heals. She may recover fully and go back to doing agility (she's over halfway to her MACH on pts and a quarter of the way there on QQs...and was picking up QQs to qualify for nationals next year... ) or she may never do agility again but my main goal is get her back to feeling good and making sure she is comfortable and mobile when she actually is an old dog.

So there you go...UTD on the Kim Saga if you somehow managed to make it through that novel
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ARCHX U-CD Kim MX MXJ NF CL3-SF RL3/2X/1X-COE CGC -- Golden Ditzhund, b. ~Mar'07
MACH ARCHX U-CD Webster MXB MJB RL3/2X/1X-COE CGC -- Flying Houdini, b. ~Jun'07
Mira CD JH MX MXB MXJ MJB CGC WCX -- Princess Cheeseface, b. Jul'09
Lodin -- Crazy Monkeybean, b. Dec'13
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  #23  
Old 06-24-2012, 12:26 PM
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(((((((((((((Hugs))))))))))))

I would suggest finding a vet who is at least open minded about raw diet if not in full support of it. Otherwise, lie through your teeth next time they ask what the dog eats.

Other than that, it's a shame to not have clear answers. Arthritis may be possible, but I'd lean more towards calcification from the injury instead.

Did they take X Rays?
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  #24  
Old 06-24-2012, 12:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corgipower View Post
(((((((((((((Hugs))))))))))))

I would suggest finding a vet who is at least open minded about raw diet if not in full support of it. Otherwise, lie through your teeth next time they ask what the dog eats.

Other than that, it's a shame to not have clear answers. Arthritis may be possible, but I'd lean more towards calcification from the injury instead.

Did they take X Rays?
Or the injury just hasn't healed yet. She's only really be undergoing treatment for about 3 weeks and with back injuries my understanding is they can take quite a while to heal.

No X-rays yet but that'll be the next step if she doesn't respond to treatment. Right now our approach would not change if she did have the beginnings of arthritis or spondylosis...we'd be doing what we are doing anyway to clear up the compounding injury. I'm not sure if calcification of the injury would change the treatment approach...I will ask, thank you. The traditional vet didn't mention Xrays but I asked about them -- they were booked too full on Friday to do them anyway. The Alt Vet can do them as well and plans to depending on how Kim responds to treatment. We'll discuss at our next appointment based on her progress.

And yeah the Traditional Vet (for lack of a better term) came highly recommended for certain things which is why I go there. Apparently she's fabulous for surgeries, does a lot of repro work, good for X-rays, etc. Not things I've had to take advantage of yet but there it is. We've had several vets over the years due to multiple moves...I'm fine with being questioned and/or critiqued with regards to choices I make around my dogs. I've been around enough clinics and vets to know that as certain as they all are, they are not united in their opinions on virtually any topic . In general my choices were not made lightly...if they were and I could improve on what I'm doing then I'm more than happy to learn more. Heaven knows dog people tend to be extremely opinionated...I can be no different depending on the topic...but I get along with that sort of folk just fine.

What gets me irritated is when I'm paying someone for their knowledgeable and minimally biased opinion and instead I get railroaded. There was no discussion as to what "raw diet" meant in my household, no discussion of why I chose a raw diet (after a year of struggling to avoid it and trying everything else but still ending up with hot spots, stomach rashes, etc.), etc. For all she knew I was feeding my dogs boneless skinless chicken breast night and day and after leaving it out in the sun to ferment first . But she couldn't know because instead of asking or having a discussion she immediately tried to scare tactic me into buying what her clinic sold (Iams) and using sketchy info to back up those recommendations.
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ARCHX U-CD Kim MX MXJ NF CL3-SF RL3/2X/1X-COE CGC -- Golden Ditzhund, b. ~Mar'07
MACH ARCHX U-CD Webster MXB MJB RL3/2X/1X-COE CGC -- Flying Houdini, b. ~Jun'07
Mira CD JH MX MXB MXJ MJB CGC WCX -- Princess Cheeseface, b. Jul'09
Lodin -- Crazy Monkeybean, b. Dec'13
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  #25  
Old 08-02-2012, 06:31 AM
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Shai Shai is offline
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(deleted, decided to just make new thread to avoid confusion)
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ARCHX U-CD Kim MX MXJ NF CL3-SF RL3/2X/1X-COE CGC -- Golden Ditzhund, b. ~Mar'07
MACH ARCHX U-CD Webster MXB MJB RL3/2X/1X-COE CGC -- Flying Houdini, b. ~Jun'07
Mira CD JH MX MXB MXJ MJB CGC WCX -- Princess Cheeseface, b. Jul'09
Lodin -- Crazy Monkeybean, b. Dec'13
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