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  #41  
Old 07-27-2012, 07:01 AM
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JoLeigh JoLeigh is offline
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Originally Posted by Laurelin View Post
How is this any different than people breeding dogs to look like miniature borzois, miniature australian shepherds, or miniature huskies? The silken windhound, the klee kai, and the Mini American Shepherd are all doing very well and have enough of a support base to become actual breeds.

I do think it's suspect that they won't release the entire project but then again, neither will the klee kai's creator.
That, plus there is a LOT of assumption going on about the breed with out ever talking to her. I briefly did yesterday and she was VERY open and very realistic about them.

Oh and her reponce about SchH-
Most will not do well in the Protection Phase of Schutzhund, but a few can do this if it is taught with Prey drive only, not Defense drive.


She said questions can be emailed to her at [email protected]
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  #42  
Old 07-27-2012, 07:43 AM
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I remember the fury over the Canis panther and I am sure it would happen with the dogo argentino today too.

I think you're being an alarmist really. I don't see massive litters being sold to anything who'll snag them up, maybe their program isn't as evil as you're assuming?
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  #43  
Old 07-27-2012, 08:31 AM
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Originally Posted by AdrianneIsabel View Post
I remember the fury over the Canis panther and I am sure it would happen with the dogo argentino today too.
Right? I always wonder that about recently created breeds... Good thing they weren't being developed in today's climate.
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  #44  
Old 07-27-2012, 11:53 AM
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I actually agree with Lyzelle a hundred times over on all of her posts in this thread. You can find dogs that fill that appearance niche in shelters and rescues EVERYWHERE.

What do I hear most from strangers in relation to my dogs? "Look mommy, wolves!!!"

How did I end with a second one? Oh thats right, my best friend's mom wanted a pretty, super cool dog just like Lily... And I do consider Scout pretty lazy by my standards. She requires a lot less mental and physical workout to be happy each day than Lily does. Lily starts chasing her tail if she's not worked hard enough every day, which isn't often.

I have no problem with purpose bred working mixes, but this? I can never agree to this. I don't care much for all the minaturized breeds either, despite fostering and loving Spaz the mini Aussie I still don't agree with minaturizing the breed. And even the creator of the labradoodle said he regretted doing it later...

Point is, breeds were all created for purposes and I think that when you no longer breed for purpose, you take away most/all of the qualities that gave those breeds balance, clear charachterists, etc. to begin with. If you say oh whatever its just a pet, we don't need the whole package of functional structure/health/drive/temperament and looks lastly then IMO you are left with a dog thats not nearly as good quality overall and the breed will eventually (or quickly even) go downhill because of it. Breeding for looks is the number one best way to ruin a breed of dogs and is IMO a **** poor basis on which to solely create a breed.

I also do not care at all for showline versions of the working dogs I love. That Sibe I keep seeing on campus is beautiful, but he is such a sad shell of what a Sibe should be... That love and drive for running and the cracked out prey drive is such a part of them is totally missing from him and its just incredibly depressing (though probably good for his safety given his **** poor owner always has him off leash... though remember Sibe rule number one, he probably will up and run someday... ) to see that shell of a dog all for the sake of having a pretty ornament at your side. Just not okay man!

Compared to my crazy girl woo-ing at me and having spastic husky zoomies around the house this morning LOL.

The falsification regarding the Seppala lines here in the US is really interesting. Especially the ones that claim to be, but are obviously out of some other well known lines from how they are built/look.

I'm sure this lady has fantabulous intentions, but you know what they say about the road to hell...
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  #45  
Old 07-27-2012, 12:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeys23 View Post
If you say oh whatever its just a pet, we don't need the whole package of functional structure/health/drive/temperament and looks lastly then IMO you are left with a dog thats not nearly as good quality overall and the breed will eventually (or quickly even) go downhill because of it. Breeding for looks is the number one best way to ruin a breed of dogs and is IMO a **** poor basis on which to solely create a breed.
This breed while based on a criteria for a specific looks (as all breeds are) is bred foremost for functional structure, health, and temperament, not for being a pretty pet but bred to be a working sport dog.
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  #46  
Old 07-27-2012, 12:26 PM
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I have a probably stupid and absolutely unrelated question :P

Are the working Sibes that you guys are talking about used as sled dogs still? If so, how is having an insane prey drive advantageous? I would think "OMG DEER!!!" while in harness times however many there are on the crew would be a disaster lol
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  #47  
Old 07-27-2012, 12:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoLeigh View Post
This breed while based on a criteria for a specific looks (as all breeds are) is bred foremost for functional structure, health, and temperament, not for being a pretty pet but bred to be a working sport dog.
Yep.

Hey guys, reading the link may be helpful. You know what they say about assumptions.
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  #48  
Old 07-27-2012, 12:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyzelle View Post
Actually, I said the NICHE itself was small, and the demand for these dogs isn't nearly enough to keep up with the production. It will bottleneck once the demand has been met, then it will backflow. The MARKET is there, but the market is based ONLY on hype and physical attraction(EVERYONE likes the novelty of having a wolfdog), and like I said, very, very, very FEW of those people will be concerned with titles, health testing, or responsible ownership/breeding of this so-called "breed".
How can you say that when half the chazzers in posting in this thread alone have expressed interest in owning one? We're all pretty serious, responsible dog owners who do sports and stuff.

And a lot of what else you're saying is making major assumptions without even talking to the breeder.

Personally, I'd love a breed that was an all around "everyman" dog similar to a GSD for dabbling in nosework and other fun stuff that sight hounds don't particularly excel at. Most of the other shepherds have too much energy for me (dutchies and mals) or are too dependent (I'm a sight hound person, GSDs fall in this category), or on the other end of the spectrum, too independent (most northern breeds). Something like a samoyed is close to what I like in terms of independence and being handler oriented, but I'm not a fan of the giant poofy white coat and size. Aussies are close too... but not really right and I can't see myself getting one on purpose. There really isn't a breed out there right now that fits, though there are probably individual dogs. That's not something you can determine when they're puppies though, and that's the age I like to raise my dogs from.
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  #49  
Old 07-27-2012, 01:02 PM
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This is why I posted it, and specifically quoted the DQ's... this is not a dog bred only for looks. The idea is a wolfy-looking dog in a healthy body and with a good temperament.

Will people buy them primarily on the basis of looks, yes, but so what, happens all the time and it's not the end of the world so long as the dog they buy actually does make a good pet. I agree with whomever said there is a need for a responsibly-bred wolfy-looking pet dog. Yes people could look through husky breeder culls but the whole point of having breeds is to concentrate and make easily available a selection of traits. Otherwise what's the point of having Malinois, may as well scrap that breed and people who want a dog that looks and acts like a Malinois can sift through 10,000 GSD's until they find a slim, crazily driven hyperactive one. You can predict this breed's downfall via BYB's but that happens with every breed and obviously the founder is trying to prevent it happening by DQ dogs that get anything less than "Good" through OFA, don't pass a TT, etc. When's the last time you saw a standard that included such things? I'm sure some BYB will breed from a bunch of DQ'd dogs but that's no reason to not breed nice ones.
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  #50  
Old 07-27-2012, 03:37 PM
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I haven't seen sibes that look like this, bred with a consistent look, nor sibes that have the ideal temperament for sports such as agility and obedience.
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