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  #31  
Old 07-26-2012, 04:35 PM
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Romy Romy is offline
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Well foo, I was misread and thought there was some tamaskan anyway. I really like the temperaments of those dogs.

Regardless, tamaskans and utonagans have both been around for a while now with very similar goals as this breeder, and there hasn't been a giant backyard boom of bybers trying to cash in. If people want the real thing, there will be a registry and they can make sure they're getting stuff from the original lines that way.

If people want to be cheap and lazy, and buy mixed breeds out of the newspaper they'll do that regardless. They do that even with purebreds, does that mean nobody should breed aussies because bybers sell aussie mixes as purebred? I don't see how that should stop anyone from responsibly creating a new breed.

And lots of people don't want sibes and hybrids, but like that northern breed look (like me). Rather than water down existing breeds to fill a companion niche or continue producing hybrids that most people shouldn't own, isn't it better to create a new companion breed?
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  #32  
Old 07-26-2012, 04:58 PM
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I wouldn't get a sibe. The don't suit me nor are they my style, looks-wise. I would however get a dog that looks like this if it's temperament suits me.
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  #33  
Old 07-26-2012, 06:23 PM
JessLough JessLough is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyzelle View Post
I don't think this breed will fill any void. Someone who wants a Sibe will get a Sibe. If they want a Wolf Hybrid, they will get a Hybrid. Anyone in the dog world should know this. Even if someone had the choice of getting the SAME breed from either a breeder or rescue...where is 70% of the public going to go first? The breeder, and it's likely to be a "cheap" one.

And IF this breed takes off, you'll have BYB snatching up every Hybrid, Sibe, Akita, and GSD trying to breed them on their own, then sell them for cheaper prices than this breeder most likely wants, and minus the titles and health testing...because the public just wants "pets" anyway, so who cares?

I see this ending down a very, very bad road. As so most designer mutts that are centered around hype, popularity, and giving people what they want.
Why yes, if somebody wants a sibe or a hybrid they'll get a sibe or a hybrid. But what about those that want the look, sorta, but not a sibe or hybrid?

And yah; it's not like BYBs only go to new breeds... I guess every breeder should stop breeding because somebody might become a BYB of the breed?

Even educated dog people may want a dog like this, why should they not be allowed to have a breed they like? Does everybody who want an Aussie go to a reputable Aussie breeder? How about sibes? Pugs? No, because regardless of how long the breed has been around, there are people who will go to a BYB because they are more convenient and/or less expensive.

If people shouldn't be breeding because of the chance of BYBers, then, well, I guess nobody should breed and there should be no dogs at all being bred, because then BYBs won't have anything to breed. It's not like this mix is even "new", People have been breeding these breeds together for a long time -- the only difference is now they will be health/temperament tested and have a name.

No matter what breed, majority of the public are going to go to BYBs first, because they are more convenient for impulse buys

ETA: wow I'm tired, redundant post is redundant.
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  #34  
Old 07-26-2012, 07:29 PM
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Yes, all breeds are BYB'd. But why bother creating a new one, honestly? The niche is VERY small, and it isn't likely to grow. People who want "pets" that look like wolves aren't the kind of people who are going to go out and trial, compete, and show their dogs. Nor do they give any kind of flips about health testing. It's a small niche, and it's one that I can imagine is going to be fed to a HUGE audience....and then **** goes downhill.

Sibes, Malamutes, Pyr Shepherds, GSDs, and all the "father" strains of this so called "new breed", aka, DESIGNER MUTT, are already under flack and breed bans. They don't need some curious dumb-bell geneticist having fun mixing them all together and trying to make a super-do-everything-be-awesome-at-everything "breed" that is going to fit in a VERY small paying community and then get thrown around as cash cows by the rest of the public.

Like I said...Labradoodles anyone? That started out really well, heath testing and all. Anyone check their local craigslist for the new "oodle" you could get?

The major difference with other breeds is that they not only have a purpose and are bred for LARGE audiences that are more than happy to fork over the cash for a GOOD herder, GOOD guard dog, AWESOME rally project. It balances out. Not to mention the also LARGE support communities already in place for 99% of them.

This? This is a disaster waiting to happen.

And as far as "watered down breeds", yeah, every single breed that is in these mutts lineage...they already have watered down versions. The AKC Siberian Husky is probably the worst of them all. Labs would probably come in at close second. And I'm sure a few BC people would like to throw in their views on "show dogs" vs "working dogs", too.

ETA: And it's not like these are purpose bred mixes. They are just some backyard science project trying to find the "perfect" pet.
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Last edited by Lyzelle; 07-26-2012 at 07:45 PM.
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  #35  
Old 07-26-2012, 07:52 PM
JessLough JessLough is offline
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Quote:
People who want "pets" that look like wolves aren't the kind of people who are going to go out and trial, compete, and show their dogs. Nor do they give any kind of flips about health testing.
I'm just going to go ahead and point out that Adrianne said she would like a dog like this for the looks, and she does a ton with her dogs. So they are around.

There are plenty breeds that were once mutts that were bred for companionship.

Plus, they are being bred for sports people, not just for a companion.

ETA: ANYWAY, in the end it really doesn't matter, cause you're not looking for another breed. Others are, though
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  #36  
Old 07-26-2012, 08:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyzelle View Post
Like I said...Labradoodles anyone? That started out really well, heath testing and all. Anyone check their local craigslist for the new "oodle" you could get?
I'd like to say that I have come across quite a few very reputable Australian Labradoodle breeders. And in my opinion, that is the difference - the Australian Labradoodles that belong to a breed club and are working within a breed standard and the Joe Schmo down the street breeding his Lab and Poodle together for a quick buck.

Just like I can find a Labrador breeder that is very reputable and is doing things with their dogs...and then I can find one that's breeding "champagne", "blue eyed", "silver", and "mocha" Labradors.

IMO, a reputable breeder is a reputable breeder...regardless of dog/breed/lineage. If someone wants to create a new breed of dog to fit their needs and is doing it responsibly...who cares?

You said it yourself. You don't think there is a big enough niche for this breed to take off. Then it won't be very popular, and BYBs won't be out to make a quick buck, will they? Because why would you breed a dog that isn't going to sell, if all you are out to do is make money?
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  #37  
Old 07-26-2012, 10:58 PM
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I would also totally get one. I love the look of hybrids, but I'm not stupid enough to get one.
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  #38  
Old 07-26-2012, 11:04 PM
Saeleofu Saeleofu is offline
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Quote:
IMO, a reputable breeder is a reputable breeder...regardless of dog/breed/lineage. If someone wants to create a new breed of dog to fit their needs and is doing it responsibly...who cares?
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  #39  
Old 07-26-2012, 11:57 PM
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Actually, I said the NICHE itself was small, and the demand for these dogs isn't nearly enough to keep up with the production. It will bottleneck once the demand has been met, then it will backflow. The MARKET is there, but the market is based ONLY on hype and physical attraction(EVERYONE likes the novelty of having a wolfdog), and like I said, very, very, very FEW of those people will be concerned with titles, health testing, or responsible ownership/breeding of this so-called "breed".

And FWIW, I don't think this is a "responsible" breeding program at all. Especially since they are not willing to release the origins of their breeding stock. They are walking the walk, but there's a lot of holes. And once these dogs get placed in "pet" homes, it will be a downward spiral from there. The creator of a backyard science project isn't going to be all that concerned with the repercussions of keeping these dogs intact....they are going to be more concerned about how they are going to breed the next generation.

I'm simply expecting it to end badly, and it will be the rest of us (especially those with spitz/wolfy/Sibes/Malamutes/shepherd dogs) who will be cleaning up after this mess when it finally blows up in everyone's faces. Yippee.
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  #40  
Old 07-27-2012, 06:06 AM
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Laurelin Laurelin is offline
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How is this any different than people breeding dogs to look like miniature borzois, miniature australian shepherds, or miniature huskies? The silken windhound, the klee kai, and the Mini American Shepherd are all doing very well and have enough of a support base to become actual breeds.

I do think it's suspect that they won't release the entire project but then again, neither will the klee kai's creator.
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