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  #11  
Old 07-21-2012, 11:26 PM
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Shai Shai is offline
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Your description sounds about right to me.

I ran one in agility last week...was going to be running her in an upcoming agility trial but she came into heat. Too bad...we were going to have fun.

Smart, sassy as all get out, entertaining dog. Personality to spare.
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  #12  
Old 07-21-2012, 11:41 PM
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I'm glad I'm mostly on the right track. I really do think the cardis are such fun and happy dogs. Although... I already have one dog with way too much personality.

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Originally Posted by FG167 View Post
We were very happy with how our "conformation" dogs shaped up!

Eden Before:


Eden After:


Poppy Before:


Poppy After:
That's amazing! I hate that they show some breeds so fat.
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  #13  
Old 07-22-2012, 01:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Laurelin View Post
I haven't ever been a big fan of pemmies to be honest *ducks and hides* The ones I know are overly snarky and just too much attitude for me. The cardis seem a lot more even keeled? Is that a good assumption? I like some attitude but pemmies (and ACDs) just seem like too much attitude.
From what I've experienced with Pembrokes.... they have a temperament that's REALLY easy for careless/misguided breeders to screw up. IMO, there's a fine line between "correct temperament" and "snarky a-hole." I thank the corgi-gods EVERY DAY that I have a Pembroke with a correct temperament. A few Chazzers have met Revy, and all of them have been pleasantly surprised/amazed that "nice" Pembrokes do exist.
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  #14  
Old 07-22-2012, 08:35 AM
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Originally Posted by SizzleDog View Post
From what I've experienced with Pembrokes.... they have a temperament that's REALLY easy for careless/misguided breeders to screw up. IMO, there's a fine line between "correct temperament" and "snarky a-hole." I thank the corgi-gods EVERY DAY that I have a Pembroke with a correct temperament. A few Chazzers have met Revy, and all of them have been pleasantly surprised/amazed that "nice" Pembrokes do exist.
That's what I don't like about the owner of Jinjo's sire, her dogs are... what made Jinjo! His dam/grandam was NOT this temperament at all, he gets it all from his sire, never met them myself but have family-friends who have and, yeah. Confor, they fit the standard good, they're health tested out the wazoo, but, major fail on temperament. So talk about getting the short end of both sticks for him, dams health/sires attitude .
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Old 07-22-2012, 10:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laurelin View Post
These cardis are all sports dogs and they look like a lot of fun. Very tug and toy motivated, very 'up' kinds of dogs that always seem to be having tons of fun when they're training. They strike me as happy goofballs and unlike some breeds that seem to work to work, they work to have fun. They're not super fast like the dogs I tend to go for though, which I'm sure is more an issue of leg length than anything else. They're surely not slow dogs by any means though.

Anyways, they've struck me as very fun little dogs but I am not sure I'd consider them. I'm just curious if these guys sound in line with the breed as a whole.
Cardis are very funny dogs, kinda quirky dogs. They can range from almost no drive to crazy drive, friendly and outgoing to aloof and indifferent, silly and fun to GSD like serious. If you get the right one though, they can be really fun and great sport dogs. And they have some seriously cute expressions with their too big ears...
[IMG]Nooo...I'm a nice dog! [/IMG]

Ziggy is a rescue, so I don't know where he came from. He's definitely what one could call a "throwback" type - logger legs, shorter boy and lighter boned than the typical Cardi you see in the show ring today.








He is a really, really crazy dog. In one of the pictures above his nails are bleeding because he ran so hard on our hike and it didn't really even slow him down at all. He has little impulse control and a lot of oomph, so in working him he never, ever quits but things sometimes tend to spiral out of control pretty quickly He's crazy fast in agility, even at 9 years old and still jumping full height. We took him to Flyball for awhile and he was such a hit there, you could see the Flyball people get little hearts over their heads when he ran (a fast, driven 12" tall dog tends to make most Flyball people very happy). No one could believe it was possible for him to be that fast, given his build.





Some videos:
Flyball: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B42QFLXvo3s

Agility: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_P_HQaDnJ0

Ziggy can be a total tug maniac, the sort of dog you can lift off the ground while he bites harder and growls the whole time. In a stimulating environment though, he tends to be less interested in toys or food than he is in the action. Agility has been hard with him partially because it is so very self rewarding for him to just GO! Sometimes he doesn't even want a treat, he just wants to keep going. And he is a very food motivated dog otherwise.

In day to day life, Ziggy is a pretty soft dog with us and was especially as a younger dog. When we first got him, he'd pee if he thought you were going to make him go somewhere he didn't want to go. He pretty much out grew that but he still gets very, very squishy if he thinks he's in trouble. In working though, he's not one bit soft. With strangers, he's pretty aloof usually but sometimes he wants to be very friendly. Or he wants them to give him a treat When people come over he's all over them wanting all of their attention. With the other dogs, he can definitely be a jerk and I do think that tends to be the nature of the breed. He occasionally in overstimulating situations decides to take on Jagger. It never, ever works out for him but once he decides to do it, he will not back off until he's physically removed. Once you break it up though, all is well - no one holds a grudge and we can go back to normal. It also took Ziggy about a year to be nice to Savvy LOL He has finally stopped growling and showing all his teeth at Savvy whenever Savvy got the idea that maybe they could be friends. He can be crazy jealous over any of the other dogs getting attention from us or any guests. He can get rather resource guardy about his space when people are giving him attention. For the most part though, he's all threats and noise other than when he occasionally gets into it with Jagger (and even then, he's usually the one who ends up with marks...).

I'd say the biggest things you have to watch out for if you want a Cardi as a sport dog is drive and structure. Too many Cardis don't have the drive they should and are too laid back, aren't interested in doing stuff, etc. And some have the drive but are just not built for it with their super heavy bone, barrel chests and exaggerated dwarf characteristics. Oh and they aren't always nice to other dogs LOL Not so much true dog aggression as being...overbearing and resource guardy. They are very, very bossy little dogs. I think that is a trait most people like least about Corgis of either type and it is not uncommon.



Quote:
Originally Posted by ~WelshStump~ View Post
That's what I don't like about the owner of Jinjo's sire, her dogs are... what made Jinjo! His dam/grandam was NOT this temperament at all, he gets it all from his sire, never met them myself but have family-friends who have and, yeah. Confor, they fit the standard good, they're health tested out the wazoo, but, major fail on temperament. So talk about getting the short end of both sticks for him, dams health/sires attitude .
What is it about their temperament you don't like?
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  #16  
Old 07-22-2012, 09:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aleron View Post




What is it about their temperament you don't like?
That picture above!!! He gets like that far to much, he use to stand over his food bowl if you just breezed by and made the most horrid noises! I "fixed" that one day by dumping the entire contents of a pitcher on his head instead of in his water bowl he wouldn't remove himself from. Needless to say, he was the most unpleasant puppy to live with, ever, just because of that snarky little attitude. I dealt with it, and he's still here today, but he can still be a pain. Recently he's taken to banishing Noods from the entire kitchen at dinner time, just cuz he knows he can get away with it with him .

Oh, and I have my own picture to illustrate, here he is giving Nigel "a good talking to", in his usual "GRRRRRR" fashion (I don't call him "Grr-Grr man" for no reason):




And the only way to make him stop that, is to grab him by the collar and pull him away. If you don't put him away, he usually sneaks back over in a few minute and starts again.
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Old 07-23-2012, 08:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ~WelshStump~ View Post
That picture above!!! He gets like that far to much, he use to stand over his food bowl if you just breezed by and made the most horrid noises! I "fixed" that one day by dumping the entire contents of a pitcher on his head instead of in his water bowl he wouldn't remove himself from. Needless to say, he was the most unpleasant puppy to live with, ever, just because of that snarky little attitude. I dealt with it, and he's still here today, but he can still be a pain. Recently he's taken to banishing Noods from the entire kitchen at dinner time, just cuz he knows he can get away with it with him .
Well, corgis aren't for everyone

Really though, I'm not sure that stuff is really "incorrect temperament" for the Corgi breeds. Just because it's a trait you don't enjoy doesn't mean it isn't part of the breed. They are such old breeds that it is really hard to know what the original dogs may have been like and how different the two breeds were before they were interbred in more more times. There certainly are temperament differences between them but there similarities as well. There was also a lot of outcrossing, even if fairly modern times to other breeds. What we do know is that they are very small dogs bred to move very large animals. From that, we can assume they have always been quite bossy, forceful and tend to be unwilling to back down. Also that they are very sensitive to and aware of pressure, movement and perceived threats. Those traits are admirable in a cattle dog but can translate to being guard-y, reactive and overbearing towards other household animals...or humans in some cases.

Personally if I had a dog that had escalating food aggression towards my other dogs, I'd be sure they had a place they could eat undisturbed by other dogs. For the sake of everyone involved. Ziggy has a tendency to be resource guardy over food with other dogs. He's much better now that he's older because he knows the other dogs aren't allowed to try to take food from him. At this point he minds his own business and eats his dinner unless another dog comes right up to him, which I try to make sure doesn't happen. If it didn't work that way and he had gotten worse, he'd just eat outside by himself or in a crate.

Same with being protective of his space with the other dogs, it usually isn't an issue unless the dog is really invading his space. I say he didn't like Savvy until he was over a year old but it was a pretty superficial dislike. It wasn't like they had to be kept apart or anything, just that Savvy wanted to be friends and Ziggy thought Savvy was stupid. The above picture cracks me up every time I see it because Ziggy looks so devilish and Savvy looks so happy-happy-happy and oblivious. That is sorta how their relationship went for the first year LOL.

Maybe I've lived with quirky, obsessive, weird herding breeds for so long that I think it takes a lot to surprise me behavior-wise. I look at stuff like superficial resource guarding between dogs, dogs getting cranky over space or sleeping spots and what not to be fairly normal dog interactions. When we got Ziggy we were warned by a local Cardi enthusiast that all of her dogs pretty much are fed separately because they all tend towards wanting to guard their dinner. Not really an issue for us, RGing tends to be a fairly common thing with Belgians too so I have had a lot of experience with it.
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  #18  
Old 07-23-2012, 10:23 AM
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Aww Laur, you don't want a dog JUST LIKE FRODO?? That makes him sad

The cardis that I've met have definitely lacked the...hm, **** and vinegar? that I love about the pemmies. If I were to get another corgi it would absolutely be another Pem, they just have a certain spark that I haven't seen in the cardis that I frequently hang out with. Though I don't plan on having another corgi, period. (Ryan, of course, wants another Pemmie like woah, so we'll see...)

Frodo is absolutely not the correct temperament for a Pem. I'm not talking about the snarky (corgis just do snarky ), pushy, IDOWHATIWANT parts, I'm talking about the fear/anxiety issues! Pems are supposed to be fun, happy, center of attention whores! My favorite corgis in the world just look at everything their owner asks them to do and goes Oh Hellz Yeah! They're clowns, they have character to spare, they are confident, and they are just AWESOME! And if I was going to get another corgi, THAT is what I want.

My favorite ever comparison of Cardis and Pems said that at a dinner party Cardis are the reserved people in the turtleneck sweaters making hilarious, witty comments. The Pems are the people who are drunk and dancing on the table.

Laur, were you at one point looking at Icelandic Sheepdogs?
The last agility tournament I was at, the owner of the above corgis that I <3 was working with a friend's Icelandic Sheepdogs about being a butthead when their owner was in the ring with another dog. She said she would NEVER own one because "They bark all the time and shed too much...and I have CORGIS!"
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  #19  
Old 07-23-2012, 10:27 AM
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Frodo and other dogs are ALWAYS fed separately because he will guard his dinner. Izzy too when I had her. I guess I never really thought about it being an issue. I get ticked if other people try to take my food too, lol.
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  #20  
Old 07-23-2012, 10:32 AM
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Ok. *sips coffee* I tried to do this yesterday but my browser froze and it ate my post.

Re the snark: Hmm. Well it's complicated, at least in my dog. She's DR to varying degrees depending on the situation, but I have no issue managing her and taking her to agility classes, shows, etc. As far as RG goes... yes and no. Not amongst household dogs. She doesn't guard things unless a dog is actively trying to take them. If she has a kong in the living room, and my roommate's dog walks by, she doesn't hunch over it and start growling, but if he were to stick his nose in and try to take it, she would snark at him. Same with food, etc.

She doesn't RG with people at all. You can take whatever you want from her without worry. Granted I play fair so she doesn't feel the need to guard her stuff from people. I'm sure if somebody picked on her she'd eventually get nasty with them.

Now, with strange dogs or ones she doesn't know well... yes, she's guardy. Even at work, when she's been running with the other dogs (and doing just fine), if I let her get in my lap and another dog sticks its nose in, they get told off. Keeva doesn't really do the big display with the hunched neck and growling. She just gives them a hard stare and then snaps at them (but it is a snap, and not a bite). At agility class, we were sitting outside the ring while another team ran a sequence, and this lady was not minding her Dalmatian at all. Keeva was getting cheese for playing LAT and the Dal wanted some too... I got the owner's attention before it became a problem but Keeva was not going to share (which is what I told the owner afte she said, "oh haha, mine loves cheese!") But at home, she shares a water dish no problem, will clean off a plate with another dog with no issue, etc. I don’t find her a difficult dog to have in a multi-dog household.

With people, she's a steady dog. Ignores strangers (like they're not even there) unless I ask her to say hi, in which case she kind of goes through the motions of letting them pet her while she looks bored LOL. She LOVES kids, though. She was more of a socialite as a puppy but has gotten more aloof as she ages which is nice. But she definitely remembers people she likes, like my immediately family that we see 1-2 times a week, or the one client at work who ALWAYS wants to see her and Keeva now likes enough to get excited about, etc. When I dragged her to a UKC show, she had no problem with the judge’s exam and I really didn't train her for it LOL.

I would say that she’s less snarky than what Welsh Stump describes in her dog. Snark is reserved for when she deems it necessary. Like strange dogs who won’t respect her space, etc. Honestly, I don’t know that she’s any snarkier than many BC’s tend to be.

AFA sports/performance go, she’s a pretty nice little worker. She has good toy and food drives and just likes doing stuff. She gets hilariously “herdy” when playing with toys, and will freeze, get really low, fix them with the eye, and then creeeeeep up. LOL. Especially the flirtpole. She plays with toys to have fun for sure though. I don’t leave toys sitting around, but sometimes they’re out when we go to my mom’s and she doesn’t obsess over them. If I move them, however, and indicate that there’s a game to be played, she’s all about it.

She’s seriously GREAT at shaping and shaped behaviors tend to be the strongest for her. Very, VERY smart dog, who in typical herder fashion thinks she knows what you want before you do. Not a dog that works to please, but finds activities like agility rewarding enough to do “just because” – they’re fun! With that said, I find her extremely biddable and easy to train, but I’ve stay extremely positive with her. She’s not “soft” (although she’s never had a collar correction), she’s heard me yell for various reasons and doesn’t care, doesn’t get squishy. However, I strongly suspect that if you messed around on her, she’d just flip you the paw and leave. She’s not the kind of dog who’s going, “Oh but I want to make you happy!” She’s more like, “Hey, whatever, I don’t need you so if you’re going to act like that… see ya.”

On that vein, she’s weirdly independent and yet somehow handler focused. Hard to explain, honestly. You get the feeling she could take care of herself without anybody’s help, but she’s very responsive to my voice and aware of where I am. The other day I caught her waiting outside the bathroom door while I showered and I was like, “*gasp* Keeva… were you… waiting for me?!” and I swear she was like, “Well, ok now, don’t get any ideas! I was just… making sure you didn’t drown in there.”

They’re… funny little dogs, with big personalities and excellent senses of humor. If you want one for performance, do be extra aware of where it’s coming from because not all Cardis are created equal in that arena. True for every breed but esp this one, IMO. Of course, if I were you, I’d just ask the people you train with where theirs are from, for a start! I’ve spent a lot of time researching performance lines in Cardis so you can PM me any time if you want.

Also, FG, your girls look GORGEOUS! It's sooo nice to see other Cardis at sport weight! Plus the Ziggyman, of course.
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