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  #31  
Old 05-25-2012, 03:55 PM
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Dekka Dekka is offline
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No with a prong the trick is to make sure they can't get a lot of momentum to hit the end of the leash and a big ow.

On the treat front. Try cheese, or baked liver. Or if you are going store bought try Zukes or other small soft treats. Freeze dried liver is often popular. Don't go for the hard cookies, even when dogs do like them they are a pain as the dog spends a fair amount of time hoovering for crumbs. Another hint is to make sure he is hungry. Do it before a meal, or skip a meal to go train.

Use life rewards. No progress whilst pulling. Don't let pulling work. Sadly most puppies get trained to pull (accidentally) and they learn it quite well. Then we they get big people punish them for what they have been taught.
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  #32  
Old 05-25-2012, 05:02 PM
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Seems like the pulling is more a distraction issue than anything else.

I just remembered he likes mozzarella. I'll probably try that in the house, and then at the park.
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  #33  
Old 05-25-2012, 06:06 PM
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Oh sure most dogs pull because life is stimulating and exciting. But think of a puppy. You take puppy out.. puppy is sooo excited to see the world and pulls all over the place. Puppy sees exciting blade of grass down the sidewalk and pulls towards it. And low and behold puppy gets to that exciting plant!! THe puppy might think pulling = getting to the fun stuff. The puppy never knew that the walk would happen and he would get to the fun stuff even with out the pulling.

Then puppy grows a bit bigger and the person at the end of the leash notices the pulling and then they start punishing the dog for doing what has always worked.
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  #34  
Old 05-25-2012, 06:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SevenSins View Post
Trying to let a dog "self correct" on a prong is a bad idea with my breed (and a lot of other terriers), most I've owned would just hit the end of the lead and choke themselves out with the collar, popping is much more effective. I'd personally rather see someone gradually popping the lead and collar than see a strong dog hit the end of the lead hard with a prong on, but hey, that's just me.
See and to me, with a breed like yours that have little or no pain receptors (), there is a very real possibility of the dog habituating really fast to the correction - regardless of whether the dog self corrects or you correct him. Then youíre back at square one.

Iím all about self-control for excitable/distractable dogs, and teaching attention behaviors using the distraction as cue. IOW - see strange/interesting thing = check in with mom. Wonít solve the pulling issue entirely, but is an important part of the process.
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  #35  
Old 05-25-2012, 06:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dekka View Post
Oh sure most dogs pull because life is stimulating and exciting. But think of a puppy. You take puppy out.. puppy is sooo excited to see the world and pulls all over the place. Puppy sees exciting blade of grass down the sidewalk and pulls towards it. And low and behold puppy gets to that exciting plant!! THe puppy might think pulling = getting to the fun stuff. The puppy never knew that the walk would happen and he would get to the fun stuff even with out the pulling.

Then puppy grows a bit bigger and the person at the end of the leash notices the pulling and then they start punishing the dog for doing what has always worked.
Honestly i would not be shocked if that's the case here. Sadly i don't know how he was raised, but it definitely wasn't by a trainer.

Wow that sounds worse than it is. Essentially, he has a few bad habits.

NEW QUESTION (don't feel like posting a new topic)
Can a muzzle or head collar help with dog on dog aggression? I'd like to take Cthulhu to the park to meet other dogs, but I'm worried he'll just go dominant and get his ass kicked. if i took him there with a muzzle to prevent biting and barking, would that help?
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  #36  
Old 05-25-2012, 06:40 PM
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I agree that prongs have their place in training and work remarkably well when used correctly on the right dog. That said, I don't feel a prong is for you, at least not yet. There's far more positive and mutually rewarding games you can play while walking to improve his focus on you and improve the loose leash walking. They don't work overnight, but they work in the long-term.

I'm lucky in that my dog was never a hardcore puller, but in adolescence he definitely had times where he would pull me to get to something good, pull when he saw another dog, pulled when he saw a shiny thing, etc etc.

What worked for me was a combination of several techniques used together. I used an Easy Walk harness for a spell (the front-attaching no-pull harness folks keep mentioning) which was VERY beneficial, and rewarded him positively when he kept the leash loose on that harness. I used treats, I used a friendly voice, I would pick up my walking pace excitedly... like Dekka said, life rewards. If he pulled in the EW harness, he got turned around, and didn't get anywhere, so it was a good start to teaching him what he was supposed to do, as opposed to simply what NOT to do like a prong.

When "weaning" him back onto regular harness and collar walking, I used a combo of things:

- "be a tree" when he pulled. When he pulled, I halted in my tracks. If we started walking and he pulled again, I'd halt immediately. He would get frustrated (and so would I, sometimes) but I was consistent.

- when he walked loosely, I would give positive happy voice praise and give periodic treats for walking loosely. The treats would be random, a sort of bio-feedback for doing what I like him to do.

- the Look At That game. This works especially well for distractions like people, other dogs, whatever. Use a clicker or your voice to mark. Before trying this on walks, teach him to make eye contact with you to a command of "Look at That. Click/mark and praise handsomely when he does, and build it up to the point of having him immediately look at you for the command. Then start using it on walks at random times, and build on that so that when distractions appear, he knows that he can look at the distraction, but that looking at you = a yummy treat and happy owner! Finn and I have brought the LAT game out once again since he's he's been having focus issues, and so far I've seen some great improvement.

Hope that helps some!
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  #37  
Old 05-25-2012, 06:41 PM
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Wait... Are you talking about a dog park? If you are worried about dog aggression then maybe the dog park is not the place for your dog. Honestly, a LOT of dogs are not candidates for dog parks. I have one that is great at dog parks and another dog that I would never ever bring to one.
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  #38  
Old 05-25-2012, 06:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cthulhu7 View Post
Honestly i would not be shocked if that's the case here. Sadly i don't know how he was raised, but it definitely wasn't by a trainer.

Wow that sounds worse than it is. Essentially, he has a few bad habits.

NEW QUESTION (don't feel like posting a new topic)
Can a muzzle or head collar help with dog on dog aggression? I'd like to take Cthulhu to the park to meet other dogs, but I'm worried he'll just go dominant and get his ass kicked. if i took him there with a muzzle to prevent biting and barking, would that help?
No, I think the point was the puppy has always been allowed to pull. YOU putting a prong on him would be punishing for something that has always worked and they have no idea is "wrong".

At least that was how I took it, dont want to put words in Dekka's mouth.
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  #39  
Old 05-25-2012, 07:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cthulhu7 View Post

NEW QUESTION (don't feel like posting a new topic)
Can a muzzle or head collar help with dog on dog aggression? I'd like to take Cthulhu to the park to meet other dogs, but I'm worried he'll just go dominant and get his ass kicked. if i took him there with a muzzle to prevent biting and barking, would that help?
If he doesnít have good doggy manners, then a dog park is the last place he needs to be. Dog parks are generally not a good place for unsure dogs.
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  #40  
Old 05-25-2012, 07:45 PM
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It's not so much a manners thing. I read online that taking him to a dog park, but staying outside of the fence might help him see how other dogs behave. Also he'd get better used to the alarming amount of smells. I figured this might be even easier if he was hindered from barking, or worst case scenario turning on me. Which, for the record, he hasn't done.
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