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Old 05-21-2012, 04:59 PM
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Lyzelle Lyzelle is offline
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Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Colorado
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I think what bothers me the most out of all this is that this potential puppy buyer thinks that she is OWED something and that she thinks she should get updates on the puppy SHE wants to get updates on. Rude much? Doesn't matter WHAT deposit you paid, HOW much you MIGHT travel to get a POTENTIAL's not your dog, not your litter, and you need to back up and get over yourself. Holy cow.

A breeder being open and honest is one thing. That is OFFERING information on the litter. A potential buyer demanding information? That's way over the line in my opinion. And then coming here to try and "defend" herself, only to have her appear that much worse? Tracking down your breeder, demanding information out of them, thinking you are OWED something by's all rather rude.

I'm neither a breeder nor am I on a waiting list at the moment, it's just common sense to me. Not your dog, not your litter. You aren't owed a darn thing. Really, how rude can you get?

Breeder didn't even come to rant or rave on this woman. She just asked how much information she should be giving out, and the backstory as to why she was feeling that way. And, heck, I wouldn't blame her if she decided to halt all updates. This is definitely one of those "wow" moments when you remember how self-entitled some people can be!
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Old 05-21-2012, 05:13 PM
JuliaMae JuliaMae is offline
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Thanks bogart, you are pretty much right and I agree with you, except for the fact that nobody knew who I was until I outed myself. Contrary to what seems to be popular belief I was not stalking. A friend and a member told me about this site.
I sure will post pictures of my puppy when I get him home. Can hardly wait.
Now a word to Freehold where every one who cares to can see it.
I DO NOT like posting this stuff on forums and would much rather discuss any problems with you personally. But when our differances are settled on one site I asume everything is well, then a few hrs later you start posting the same old stuff on another site how do repect me to react.

***8220;If caring is a crime, color me guilty.***8221;
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Old 05-21-2012, 05:19 PM
JuliaMae JuliaMae is offline
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Lyzelle, Careful if you get both feet in your mouth you are liable to choke.

"Any person who thinks they know it all, ceases to learn and in ceasing to learn becomes stupid"
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Old 05-21-2012, 05:20 PM
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Freehold Freehold is offline
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Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Peterborough, Ontario, Canada
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In a brief FIRST response - before the rest - this post can BEFORE the settlement on the other site. And had not been added to after that, other than in terms of resolvement. Those posts were added while I was writing the following:

Posting timeline:
First post on IW Forum: Post subject: Is Puppy OK? Posted: Tue May 15, 2012 8:22 pm
First post that concerned me: Post subject: Re: Is Puppy OK? Posted: Wed May 16, 2012 5:53 am
My response on the IW Forum: Post subject: Re: Is Puppy OK? Posted: Wed May 16, 2012 10:42 am
My post on Chaz: 05-16-2012, 11:51 AM
My more detailed post on Chaz: 05-16-2012, 02:04 PM
My settlement post on IW Forum: Post subject: Re: Is Puppy OK? Posted: Wed May 16, 2012 2:28 pm (also my last post on that thread)
My last post on Chaz (after having read and responded on IW Forum – and when I made the mistake of not having the thread deleted…): 05-16-2012, 03:32 PM
The last post on the subject on Chaz before JuliaMae found it: 05-16-2012, 05:57 PM
The date JuliaMae responded on Chaz: Yesterday, 07:00 PM (which would have been May 20th)

*hidinghead* (you guys need a smilie for that one... lol)

I posted this thread when I was frustrated and upset with the post on the Irish wolfhound forum. It was before you posted your later response, JuliaMae, so I was very upset and wanted input from others. I considered removing the entire thread after your response - guess I should have... But perhaps now that you are here and posting you might have the chance to get to learn from some of the interesting and highly varied individuals on here.

To me, this forum is my place to relax. It doesn't have a whack of Irish Wolfhound breeders who will judge me as a member of those who breed their breed (like the IW Forum). I came here on invite from a Real Life friend who happens to be a long-standing member here, and thought I would enjoy it.

99% of the time the posts on here came after (or at the same time as) the blog posts. The material in the updates was sometimes different, yes, but not by much. A different photo here, a voiced concern there. Often I would type a post here while typing a blog post (and waiting for stuff to load from my computer). Yes, the button was clicked here first sometimes. Sometimes when I have very little time, I would post here between blog postings, since I couldn't fit in the time to do both.

I have been raising this litter of puppies to the best of my ability. I do have help from my mother, and sometimes my father, but both are in the 70s and get worn out pretty easily. Any medical treatments always fall onto me. All weigh-ins are my job. I am the one who cleans up the bedding. I am the one who manages the emails and who does all the blog posts. I am the one who has to photograph and/or video. Yes, I have help, but the brunt of it fall onto me. And, at the end of the day the only thing I get for it is the satisfaction of having done my best. The entire financial brunt (both good and bad) is my parents'.

In addition to the puppies I have to care for my 2 kids (12 and 4). While the 12-yr-old can mostly care for himself and is away at school much of the time, the 4-yr-old only goes to school every other day (if that). She requires a lot more general care as she's much too young to care for herself. My husband works out of town and is only home on weekends. Since the puppies were born he's been called into work all but two weekends. So even on weekends I generally have the kids to myself.

Of course I have other animals too. Two dogs, a cat, various small critters. They have all been badly neglected, but they will live. At least my son can do the majority of their care since I don't often have the time or the energy.

Since the puppies arrived my son has managed to get sick twice... missing 5 days of school. My daughter has been sick once. My mother has gotten a rare infection and needs to be on IV antibiotics and have repeated visits to the ER. Amazingly I've only gotten sick once, and relatively minor (considering everything).

Since the puppies I have had to cancel numerous appointments, including essential medical-type ones. I've avoided making the all-too necessary appointment with the chiropractor for my thrown-out neck/back because I just don't have the time for it. I've not been able to go out and enjoy myself, including for my 13th wedding anniversary. Actually, this weekend was my first chance post-puppy to go out and have fun (we went to the drive-ins with the kids and some friends).

I'm not one to complain. I don't go telling everyone about everything I have to do, all the things that go wrong, how exhausted I've been. The only reason I'm saying anything is that honestly, I don't think you have any real idea of what I've been going through.

JuliaMae, you will be a fabulous owner for whatever puppy you get. I have no doubt of this. I don't mind giving you updates (nearly always daily through the blog, and often through email). I don't mind answering your questions. But I have my limits. No, my son can't give you the updates you would like. He can't spell worth beans... and while he's pretty good for 12, his ability to know what to say is pretty limited. My mother checks the emails ever 2-3 days, but isn't the best email communicator either. She's past the "the computer is scary" stage, but still panics at least 2-3 times while she's online because she thinks she wrecked something. Basically she requires babysitting while trying to do stuff online... I love her dearly, but she's just not caught up to the technological age very well. My dad - well the computer is liable to eat him... He prefers his old Apple IIe. So, in reality it's up to me to keep up to things on here.

I don't know what else to say. Everything about this litter has been insanely stressful. I don't know if I will ever be brave enough to try breeding again. I know that there's always some risk of losing a bitch to whelping. But going through it twice in a week... And I know that some puppies will die in the average large litter, but losing three puppies despite all our efforts and interventions, especially when we've had the extra commitment of bottle and tube feeding has been heart-wrenching.

With Green puppy's congestion, I made the decision to share with you my concerns because you had expressed such a strong interest in him. I know that the way things have worked out you get first puppy pick, and that you had grown attached to him. I don't really mind that, and as I get to know the puppies I suspect that he or Orange will be the puppies that best suit your needs.

I have not told any of the other puppy buyers about Green. Honestly, I didn't even talk to the stud owner about it as I didn't feel that it was relevant to her. She knows I am doing everything I can to care for the puppies. I've not shared every tiny little up and down about every puppy to every potential buyer. I had fears that things might go badly with Green, and wanted you to know, in case the worst were to happen (which it hasn't thank goodness). I thought that was better than just announcing that Green had passed away because of the congestion becoming pneumonia. At least this way if things went south you'd have a chance to be prepared.

I have at times regretted following my conscience and telling you. It has been stressful enough as it was... But I can only be who I am.

Anyway, I didn't want to bring up specific names, or specific puppies. I didn't really want it on public forums. When you first posted on the IW forum I was actually a bit relived, as I knew what the responses of the other breeders would be. And I was right - they all told you of the pressures of raising puppies and that daily updates were above and beyond the call of duty. I was hoping that they would settle your nerves and concerns and that you would feel that I wasn't doing such a bad job. But the thread grew from there as you added more specifics. Which is why this thread came up in the first place...

This isn't stuff that really belongs in public forums. But since it is here, I will respond here.

To everyone else, thanks SO much for your support throughout this very trying breeding experience. Posting here and having your support has made a big difference to me. I have felt very welcome, and supported by the dog-loving population of Chazhound. Thank-you.
My Wolfhound Puppy Blog:

Last edited by Freehold; 05-21-2012 at 05:34 PM.
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Old 05-21-2012, 05:47 PM
SaraB SaraB is offline
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I was so sad to read about the extra stress you are going through Freehold. Seriously, if I ever got a dog from a breeder like you I would be ecstatic with all the updates, pictures and videos! Not only that but the stress that you went through when Renee bloated TWICE, ugh that's bad enough when it happens by itself but in correlation to the birth of a HUGE litter?? That is just heart wrenching. You are a great person who obviously loves her dogs and is trying so hard to do right by everyone.

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Old 05-21-2012, 09:33 PM
JuliaMae JuliaMae is offline
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I have told Freehold more then once that her and her mother are doing a great job. I will also say that I would not have wanted a puppy had it not been Aotearoa breeding. I wanted a puppy sired by Heke and the fact that Renee is full sister to Moa is an added advantage.We will not go into all this boring IW stuff.
I am tired of all this but I will tell you right now that I will never upset Freehold by asking questions that any other IW breeder would gladly answer. I wil not ask a single question. If she chooses to share information thats great if not oh well.I will make my decision to drive out or not according to the information I am given. That is the bet I can do.
And because there are some nice people on here I will say that I am not all that computor savvy and would not know how to stalk anyone online even if I wanted to, and I do not. I deeply resent being accused of being a stalker and consider it rude beyond belief. Usually when you are accused of some thing it is some thing the accuser knows all about and would probably do them selves.
I will not whine and tell you all my troubles because I am not into poor me and pity trips. All I will say is this is the first time that the purchase of a puppy is something way less than happy and not because the litter is premature either.
Ok first thing some smart butt is going to say is "why buy a puppy under these circumstances?" So I will answer before you ask. This is an Aotearoa breeding and was recommended to me by Aotearoa who I trust completely. Over and out.
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Old 05-21-2012, 10:03 PM
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Renee750il Renee750il is offline
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One of our few FIRM policies here is do NOT bring dramas from other forums here. Period.

And no, Freehold, you did not do that. As a member, you asked for opinions from other members and did not name names or do ANYTHING wrong.
In a controversy the instant we feel anger we have already ceased striving for the truth, and have begun striving for ourselves. ~Buddha

Stupid is the most notoriously incurable and contagious disease known to mankind. If you find yourself in close proximity to someone infected with stupid, walk away as soon as said infection is noted.

There are few things more nauseating than pure obedience. ~ Kvothe

***8206;"silence is the language of god, all else is poor translation."
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Be a god. Know when to shut up.

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Old 05-22-2012, 06:36 AM
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puppydog puppydog is offline
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Anything I can think of and anything they ask. Why lie? Its their dog after all.

Run free my special angel. I love you and will miss you forever more. You touched everyone with your light.

Abusive ground RAW feeder since 2009

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Old 05-22-2012, 07:50 AM
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Dekka Dekka is offline
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Location: Ontario
Posts: 19,768

But its not their dog yet. I agree once they have been offered a particular, or choice they need to here the details of that (those) pup. But not yet. I don't think anyone is saying lie!! But how much detail do you give day to day to prospective puppy owners? No one said lying about things.
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Old 05-22-2012, 09:40 AM
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Red Chrome Red Chrome is offline
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I dealt with a Puppy buyer like the one above. Great home and placement, but extremely pushy and almost a bully about updates. I refunded her deposit And told her my breeding wasn't for her and that o wasn't the right breeder for her. With a buyer like have to worry about the pushiness for the rest of a puppies life. No thank you.
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