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  #11  
Old 05-15-2012, 12:23 PM
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I watched "Child of Rage" a while back. That little girl is CREEPY, though she did end up leading a normal life (she even became a nurse) after being pulled from her adoptive parents home and being put into a live-in facility.

I cannot imagine being a parent to a child like this.
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  #12  
Old 05-15-2012, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Renee750il View Post
There's more, though, to psychopathic behaviors than lack of inhibition or the normal ranges of narcissism in children.

We knew one of my cousins was way back, when he was 4 or 5 even. Whether his is nature or nurture or a tragic combination of both (as I would guess), is up for grabs, but he's finally been diagnosed as an adult. He could easily have become a sociopath. It was rather telling that from the time he was 8 or so his hero was Adolf Hitler.
Oh, I don't doubt there are true cases, and even some kids you know - that you know. But we all know the medical community as well as the public school system, once they start 'diagnosing' the fun don't stop!
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Old 05-15-2012, 12:32 PM
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Originally Posted by PWCorgi View Post
I watched "Child of Rage" a while back. That little girl is CREEPY, though she did end up leading a normal life (she even became a nurse) after being pulled from her adoptive parents home and being put into a live-in facility.

I cannot imagine being a parent to a child like this.
I was wondering what happened to her as she got older.
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  #14  
Old 05-15-2012, 12:32 PM
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Oh, I don't doubt there are true cases, and even some kids you know - that you know. But we all know the medical community as well as the public school system, once they start 'diagnosing' the fun don't stop!
Boy, now there is TRUTH!

"Better living through chemicals," my ass.
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  #15  
Old 05-15-2012, 12:34 PM
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THAT is a very good reason not to label a child a 'psychopath' It's not uncommon for children to be narcissistic and be concerned with only their feelings.......I go farther to say the majority are. While I agree they can be born/hard wired that way and never change, it's also something that could be outgrown. Keep an eye open, provide counseling, but to firmly label is (IMO) a dangerous thing.

I always think back to the movie based on the true story of cheerleaders who committed armed robbery (can't remember the name of it) When they were arrested, they were concerned if they'd be released in time for cheer practice Seriously.......they couldn't comprehend the magnitude of what they'd done nor the consequences.

Some kids understand consequence sooner and better than others, but many have to mature into it, which makes it so incredibly difficult to separate actual mental issues from immaturity.

Acoop, Bailey's link is really interesting because it talks about how they're trying to identify pre psychopathic children vs. normal children. Brain scans done on the symptomatic children show major structural differences between them and an average child's brain.

The behavior of the disturbed kids is pretty extreme too (like shoving a toddler in a pool and pulling a chair up to watch because it's interesting to see someone drown...). They're hoping that through studying these kids and learning to identify them, they'll be able to develop therapies to allow them to feel empathy and guilt.

The label issue is a prominent one. And they're right, that it's not true psychopathy at that age. The term they use for now is callous-unemotional.

One specific issue brought up is how ritalin and other meds designed to control impulsiveness are very detrimental in treating a CU child, because one if their major traits is how manipulative they are. Even emotional outbursts are planned. Removing their impulsiveness just lets them refine their manipulation skills even more.

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“The thing that’s jumped out at me most is the manipulativeness that these kids are showing,” he said, shaking his head in wonder. “They’re not like A.D.H.D. kids who just act impulsively. And they’re not like conduct-disorder kids, who are like: ‘Screw you and your game! Whatever you tell me, I’m going to do the opposite.’ The C.U. kids are capable of following the rules very carefully. They just use them to their advantage.”
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  #16  
Old 05-15-2012, 12:39 PM
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Well, both our father and my brother are more impulsive. My father was more just plain crazy, like thinking everyone was out to get him, but that could be drugs too. And Bi-polar. But he could truly convince himself that something happened, when it hadn't. Or it started out as a lie, and then it became real. Delusional, I guess, but also manipulative. But my brother did care about others, he's always been extremely forgiving, loving, and nurturing to younger children, but he definitely always had the same manipulative and impulsive behavior as our dad. He was the kind of kid who WANTED to do right, but honestly didn't understand how. If you made him mad, he just went off the handle...no sense of "wrong" or scale of wrong, no sense of consequence. He's the type of kid that could touch a hot stove over and over....and expect a different outcome each time. Only with other people, and not a stove. On one hand, he wanted to behave, on another, he LOVED pissing people off. And above all else, he didn't seem to understand the outcomes of either. Also a kid that was bored easily. His regular teachers hated him and called him a devil child, but his advanced teachers loved him because he finished his work quickly and helped all the other kids. But he's mostly completely normal now. Impulsive, but what teenage boy isn't? So....is his just typical bored little boy misbehavior?

And it definitely runs in the family. One of my cousins had a habit of holding us other kids underwater at family reunions...at the beach, in pools, where ever....because he "wanted to see what a dead person looked like". And my mom is narcissistic, more calculated than my dad's side. But she's also a middle child...so is it an attention thing? Or from her dad's actions? Genetic or acquired?

It's really interesting to me, how much of it all might be genetic. And then you wonder why these people continue to breed....

Maybe I should give up on all the chemistry and math I fail at so much and just study this sort of thing. Human behavior.

But I read the Times article. That's really interesting to me. Disturbing, but interesting that such YOUNG children can act that way.

Labeling is definitely dangerous, though....like you walk into a classroom of 30 kids, and the teacher says 20 of them are ADD or ADHD. I know the schools in Mississippi get money for each kid they label, supposedly to go toward "programs" to help the kids, but, you know. It never happens. The school just hoards the money.
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  #17  
Old 05-15-2012, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Miakoda View Post
I was wondering what happened to her as she got older.
Yeah, she was adopted by the woman who ran the live-in facility. I know there is a LOT of controversy surrounding their methods (it's like a very VERY strict NILIF system for people, from what I got out if it), and she doesn't have any actual education to my knowledge. But Beth ended up going to the University of Colorado and getting a degree in nursing.

It would have been interesting to know what she would have turned out like is she had stayed where she was. To know whether it was the program she went through or if she would have just matured and become the "normal" person that she is today.

Very interesting stuff.
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*All Siri's rally/obedience titles are to be considered handled by Megan,
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  #18  
Old 05-15-2012, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by PWCorgi View Post
Yeah, she was adopted by the woman who ran the live-in facility. I know there is a LOT of controversy surrounding their methods (it's like a very VERY strict NILIF system for people, from what I got out if it), and she doesn't have any actual education to my knowledge. But Beth ended up going to the University of Colorado and getting a degree in nursing.

It would have been interesting to know what she would have turned out like is she had stayed where she was. To know whether it was the program she went through or if she would have just matured and become the "normal" person that she is today.

Very interesting stuff.
NILIF for humans....that's basically how we ended up raising my brother. He had to "learn" to have a conscience. ODD stands for Oppositional Defiance Disorder. So I guess it would be a conduct disorder the article was talking about.

But these kids are definitely freaky extreme.
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  #19  
Old 05-15-2012, 12:46 PM
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Maybe I'm wrong and morbid, but what better job to have to cause pain and suffering onto another, than that of a nurse-a person who has quite a bit of control and very rarely supervised by another in the room with him/her?
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Last edited by Miakoda; 05-15-2012 at 01:29 PM. Reason: Double word
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  #20  
Old 05-15-2012, 12:48 PM
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Maybe I'm wrong and morbid, but what better job to have to cause pain and suffering onto another than, than that of a nurse-a person who has quite a bit of control and very rarely supervised by another in the room with him/her?
I don't know if she actually practices. I know she does seminars and such with her adoptive mom. But I've never seen anywhere that she actually holds a nursing position at a hospital.

Dunno.
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Ado's Gimme Victory RL1* "Siri"
1.5 year old Jack Russell Terrier
Gimme Drugs Not Hugs RL1 "Frodo"
8 year old Pembroke Welsh Corgi


*All Siri's rally/obedience titles are to be considered handled by Megan,
because ain't nobody (read: me) got time or skills fo' dat.
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