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Old 05-14-2012, 10:58 AM
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Danefied Danefied is offline
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Originally Posted by elegy View Post
Personally I like APDT better because the courses are longer and more interesting. I do think AKC is easier. In APDT you *cannot* double command or you'll lose 3 points. In AKC rally you do not lose points for repeated commands.

I think the hard part about rally is knowing all the ins and outs and little rules. Like you have to pause after the walk around exercises in AKC. Those little things that can make a big difference. A class with a good instructor will help a lot with that.
With the new rules, yes, you can absolutely lose points for repeated commands. Depends on the judge and how tough they are, but the rules do state you can take points off for slow commands and repeated commands. What you do not get dinged for in rally (that you do get dinged for in regular obedience) is encouraging the dog.
For example. If I'm going through the spirals encouraging my dog with my voice (no fake luring, snapping or clapping) I'm fine. But if I halt and get a slow sit or have to ask for it more than once, you bet some judges will take anywhere from 1 to 10 points off. Just depends on the judge and how they interpret the rules - see below.
I always look at the judges sheet, and I've knocked over a cone and got no points off, ticked a jump and only got 3 points off, then on a really nice 180 pivot - forward, I didn't keep my feet "all the way" in the pie plate before going forward and lost 10 points. Go figure.

What I've noticed in AKC is that the judges in our area are scoring a lot tougher and are more in-line with what you will see in the traditional obedience ring. Definitely in the past AKC judges were just Q'ing everything, but the last couple of shows I've seen a marked difference, not just after April, but leading up to it too. IMO its a good thing.
Now, according to FB folks, in some areas they aren't even using the new signs and I've seen some videoed runs that Q'd that around here would totally not have Q'd, so I think there are some regional differences too.

AKC rules - I've bolded some parts.
I think part of the confusion is that in traditional obedience you have can only use verbal OR signal. Rally states you can do both - which in the traditional obedience world counts as a double command.
Minor Deduction (1-2 points) for each of the following:
Tight leash
Dog interfering with handler
Poor sits
Slow, delay, or resistance to respond
Touching or ticking a jump, pylon, post or person
Out of position

Minor to Substantial Deduction (1-10 points) for each of the following:
Repeat of a stationonly one (1) retry of each station will be
allowed for all class levels. Repeat of a station is an automatic 3
point deduction.
Pylon/post knocked over on Figure Eight, Spiral and Serpentine
Lack of control
Lack of teamwork
Lack of briskness
Handler error*
Loud command or intimidating signal
Excessive barking
Hitting the jump
Patting/clapping in Excellent per occurrence

Substantial Deduction (6-10 points) for each of the following:
Incorrectly performed station** (Automatic 10 point deduction)
Failure to complete the Sit Stay Exercise (IP)No retries allowed
Failure of dog to go over the jump in the proper direction (IP) no
retries allowed
Luring /pleading with the dog
Lack of natural manner

Non-qualifying (NQ) scores shall be given for: Minimum requirements not met
Dog unmanageable or uncontrolled barking
Consistently tight lead
Dog that eliminates while in the ring for judging
Handler error*
Station not attempted by handler***
Non-qualifying errors may not be re-tried
* Handler errors can be assessed from 1 to 10 points up to non-qualifying.
Handler errors can be assessed at any station or during movement
between stations on a course. Once a handler has stopped on any halt
exercise, the handler cannot move their feet to assist a dog without
incurring a handler error.
** Incorrectly Performed (IP) stations occur when a team attempts
a station and fails to perform the principal parts of the station on
the first attempt. The handler may choose to retry the station once,
for a correct performance, accepting the mandatory 3-point deduction
for the retry of the station. The station is considered an IP if the
handler chooses not to retry or fails to perform the station correctly
on the second attempt.
*** A station will be considered Not Attempted if: (refer to glossary)
Handler completely passes the station without noticing the station
Handler approaches sign but chooses not to do the exercise
Handler approaches sign but does not begin the exercise
described on the sign
"We become better trainers by refusing to swallow uncritically what is tossed to us as truth,
by developing our powers of empathy and observation,
and by searching for better ways to teach and educate the dogs we love."
~Suzanne Clothier
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