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  #241  
Old 05-08-2012, 02:11 PM
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Panzerotti Panzerotti is offline
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Has anyone checked out SG's latest contact offering?
I'm curious, but not $600 worth curious. It is tempting though....
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  #242  
Old 05-08-2012, 02:23 PM
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Shai Shai is offline
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I'm curious, but not $600 worth curious. It is tempting though....
$800-900 if you want to see the running contact stuff too. Leapin' heartattack Lizards.
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  #243  
Old 05-08-2012, 02:44 PM
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$800-900 if you want to see the running contact stuff too. Leapin' heartattack Lizards.
Oh yeah, and of course that's what I'd want. But I'm definitely not $900 curious!

If I were to spring for a contact course, it would be Silvia Trkman's for sure. But for now I'll go it on my own seeing that she is super awesome and shares a lot of her knowledge for free!
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  #244  
Old 05-08-2012, 09:16 PM
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Yeah I mean I honestly am curious because I've found her skill teaching methods to be very intuitive for me and my dogs have responded well to them. But holy smokes.

I have no trouble at all paying folks for their expertise. I realize there are quite a few people who make a living from all this and well agility at least in the U.S. is a rather expensive hobby anyway. If it's something I truly think will be of value I will look at the price and move things around and see if I can make it fit.

But to have information priced, right out the gate, so far beyond anything I could ever possibly justify to myself...it's just very disappointing to say the least. I guess I tend to approach the evolution of agility as a scientific effort where constant experimentation, information sharing, and innovation is part of what drives the sport to the next height. But the price tags being tacked on some things lately just smacks too strongly of commercialization and holding progress ransom for me.

I'm not sure how to word my gut reaction clearly but that's the best I can do at the moment.

/soapbox



In other news Mira has her first class of the season tonight and was just flippin' fabulous. Whatta dog. I tried a couple not-often-seen maneuvers with her tonight and she drove on through them just like I hoped then transitioned smoothly to tight collection on forward send jump wraps, leaving hair on the jump uprights then accelerating out of it. As her confidence grows I'm hoping to see more and more of this in trial situations as well...hard to remember she's only 2 sometimes.

I don't have anyone else in class at the moment since there's only one local class that I really get much from, but I did bring Webby along and practiced with him in the side field after Mira's class was over -- new place for him after a long long hiatus (read: he quasi-retired this time last year)...just recently I've been going back to a bit of skill refreshing with him with a heavy emphasis on motivation transfer...and he was really really on tonight. Demanding to work, running hard, finding paths and seeking out obstacles instead of holding back or trying to disconnect...just having fun.

Running both M & W tonight just felt wonderful Go pups go!
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  #245  
Old 05-10-2012, 02:10 PM
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So Karen Holik's been teaching all week at the facility I work at. I just audited on Tuesday (baby dog seminar) and Wednesday (master handling), but today I ran Zuma in her contact seminar. I specifically wanted her to see Zuma's creepy A-frame and have her help me decide whether or not to do a running A-frame with her or stay with her 2o2o. The official verdict is 2o2o because Zuma decided to do her A-frame PERFECTLY every dang time. Apparently breaking her 2o2o and running her over it over and over again did the trick because she's no longer sticky. Lets just hope it stays that way!! (and by that I mean, I'm going to lower it and proof it a whole freaking bunch and MAKE it stay that way.)

Anyways, we have a trial this weekend so cross your fingers her A-frames are nice!!
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  #246  
Old 05-10-2012, 03:28 PM
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So Karen Holik's been teaching all week at the facility I work at. I just audited on Tuesday (baby dog seminar) and Wednesday (master handling), but today I ran Zuma in her contact seminar. I specifically wanted her to see Zuma's creepy A-frame and have her help me decide whether or not to do a running A-frame with her or stay with her 2o2o. The official verdict is 2o2o because Zuma decided to do her A-frame PERFECTLY every dang time. Apparently breaking her 2o2o and running her over it over and over again did the trick because she's no longer sticky. Lets just hope it stays that way!! (and by that I mean, I'm going to lower it and proof it a whole freaking bunch and MAKE it stay that way.)

Anyways, we have a trial this weekend so cross your fingers her A-frames are nice!!
Sounds like a successful seminar! Good luck this weekend!

I have decided to go back to 2o2o contact training. I'm feeling so frustrated at the time I've wasted with running contact training. She is fine with the wide board, but I get jumping every time I transition to the narrow one. At least with 2o2o it's trainable off the equipment. Back to basics yet again.
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Old 05-10-2012, 03:35 PM
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I have decided to go back to 2o2o contact training. I'm feeling so frustrated at the time I've wasted with running contact training. She is fine with the wide board, but I get jumping every time I transition to the narrow one. At least with 2o2o it's trainable off the equipment. Back to basics yet again.
Have you shot Silvia Trkman an e-mail? IIRC you're using her method, right? I think I would be tempted to e-mail her and ask if she has any advice before totally throwing in the towel. From what I have heard other people say, she is very very nice and happy to answer questions... it's worth a shot anyway!
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  #248  
Old 05-10-2012, 03:54 PM
SaraB SaraB is offline
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Originally Posted by Panzerotti View Post
Sounds like a successful seminar! Good luck this weekend!

I have decided to go back to 2o2o contact training. I'm feeling so frustrated at the time I've wasted with running contact training. She is fine with the wide board, but I get jumping every time I transition to the narrow one. At least with 2o2o it's trainable off the equipment. Back to basics yet again.
Meh, the way I see it, 2o2o is so black and white, the training goes so much faster. The dog clearly sees what is expected of them and what earns them the reward. What I see with RC is that most the time the dog is so high they have no clue what they are doing anyways, they are just moving towards the toy. Karen brought up some good points about training RC today (she uses both, depends on the dog), sometimes you just can't train it with a toy right away and food rewards work better. So interesting to hear the differences of all the methods from someone who has put them to real life use.
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  #249  
Old 05-10-2012, 05:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Beanie View Post
Have you shot Silvia Trkman an e-mail? IIRC you're using her method, right? I think I would be tempted to e-mail her and ask if she has any advice before totally throwing in the towel. From what I have heard other people say, she is very very nice and happy to answer questions... it's worth a shot anyway!
I considered it, but didn't want to bother her for free advice. I'd feel bad even though she does seem super nice. I was thinking of doing her RC course over the summer, but re-thinking the pros and cons (plus my current frustration), I think I'll go back to 2o2o.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SaraB View Post
Meh, the way I see it, 2o2o is so black and white, the training goes so much faster. The dog clearly sees what is expected of them and what earns them the reward. What I see with RC is that most the time the dog is so high they have no clue what they are doing anyways, they are just moving towards the toy.
This is what I'm seeing now. After weeks of training, I still feel that Pan doesn't really get what she is supposed to be doing. And then add in having to train turns....I feel like I'll still be training contacts all the way into next summer!

Now I'm wishing I had shelled out the $600 for the SG course!!!
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  #250  
Old 05-10-2012, 08:51 PM
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I have decided to go back to 2o2o contact training. I'm feeling so frustrated at the time I've wasted with running contact training. She is fine with the wide board, but I get jumping every time I transition to the narrow one. At least with 2o2o it's trainable off the equipment. Back to basics yet again.
Sorry to hear you've given up on RCs but i can understand. Savvy hasn't progressed quite as far as I would have liked by now but then, I haven't been working on it the way I should be. Shows, training classes and rain has meant that he's only gotten worked a handful of times in the past month. He's definitely making steady progress despite our on again, off a lot work on it.

I can't say I haven't had the same thoughts as you - that maybe it would be quicker/easier/better to switch to 2o2o. Teaching RCs is based on the thing I probably like the least in training - lots of repetitions with very, very small steps. But then I think, I'm not sure how much faster it really is in the end. I mean, you definitely can get the dog doing full height equipment with a stop vs RC. But when you add in all the proofing and problem solving if the dog gets creepy and what not, I'm not sure 2o2o really is faster or not. That is getting a fast and reliable 2o2o with a fast, driven dog vs. getting a fast, reliable RC with a fast, driven dog. I know quite a lot of dogs who I'd consider to be very well trained on 2o2o and trained by good trainers who seem to regularly need "tune ups" on the contacts. Either because they aren't sticking them in trials or because they are creeping. There's definitely challenges with both methods. It is convenient that you can practice 2o2o just about anywhere though. And it's a more, I don't know comfortable method for most people? Familiar? I have never known anyone IRL who's taught RCs. Everything about the process is outside of my realm of experience.

Silvia Trkman says that you should be able to teach a RC in about 4 months. But it seems a lot of people never get past the very beginning stages or they struggle with it for over a year. I think it's possible for most dogs to learn RCs but I'm not sure it's possible for most trainers to do it. I'd really like to get into her May RC class but I don't think I'll have the money for it.
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