Dog Site - Dog Stuff
Dog Forum | Dog Pictures

Go Back   Chazhound Dog Forum > Dog Discussions and Dog Talk Forums > Dog Training Forum


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 05-03-2012, 09:01 AM
Gempress Gempress is offline
Walks into Mordor
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 11,955
Default bitework/protection people: an "OK" word?

Okay, yesterday brought up a minor issue with Voodoo. Voodoo is by nature a very protective dog. He doesn't allow strangers to set foot on our property if we're not home. Even people who have visited regularly aren't allowed in. If we're home, it's a different story. He absolutely adores people. BUT we've discovered we have to physically meet people at the door and invite them in for Voodoo to accept them.

We found that out when a friend stopped by yesterday. Voodoo's met him plenty of times. When our friend knocked, we were busy cooking dinner so my husband called for him to come in. Our friend was opening the door when Voodoo snarled and flat-out charged him. Fortunately, our friend closed the door in time. My husband had to go to the door and physically invite our understandably-shaken friend in for Voodoo to drop his guard.

Is it possible to teach Voodoo a specific "okay" word? How can we teach it? It would be nice to just be able to tell Voodoo that a visitor/visitors are welcome on the property without having to meet them face-to-face and escort them in every time.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 05-03-2012, 09:17 AM
FG167's Avatar
FG167 FG167 is offline
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Jefferson, GA
Posts: 2,290
Default

I taught my Dutch Shepherd the word "friend" and associated it with people he knew/liked already and me accepting them. Sometimes they would give him treats. Then I could say "friend" and he would know I expected him to go with them/be accepting. He was a nerve-bag so that only worked to an extent but the basic idea was sound.
__________________
~Falon~
Kastle (GSD) - Eden (Cardi) - Limit (Kelpie)
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 05-03-2012, 12:02 PM
Kat09Tails's Avatar
Kat09Tails Kat09Tails is offline
*Now with Snark*
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Upper Left hand corner, USA
Posts: 3,333
Default

I think you need a reality check on this. Your dog and your guests should not be put into the situation where they have to use a code word to avoid being bit by your dog.

You need to protect your dog from himself for all your sakes. He needs to be confined if there are guests coming over that you are expecting OR he needs ROCK SOLID obedience to stay away from welcomed guests. If he manages to bite someone, maul them, or manages to kill them you could lose him at minimum, lose your home, your financial future, and your freedom depending on how things went down.

You are courting a bad dog bite to a family friend or innocent bystander in the assumption that your dog who is not situationally conditioned will show enough consistency of behavior to declare "he's safe with a word and not our presence or awareness."

The best thing you can teach your dog in this situation is a place command like Kennel!, Crate up!, or House! and use it with consistency whenever a welcomed guest is arriving.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 05-04-2012, 10:48 AM
Renee750il's Avatar
Renee750il Renee750il is offline
Felurian
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Where the selas blooms
Posts: 94,266
Default

Personally, and especially in a fairly isolated area like Gem's, I LIKE having a dog who doesn't allow people to walk in without an assurance from me that it's okay.

It shouldn't be difficult for the Vood to learn. Even Kharma, with her nature, will accept a verbal, "they're okay" from me. She still watches for awhile, and keeps herself between me and them, but not with the same level of urgency.
__________________
In a controversy the instant we feel anger we have already ceased striving for the truth, and have begun striving for ourselves. ~Buddha

Stupid is the most notoriously incurable and contagious disease known to mankind. If you find yourself in close proximity to someone infected with stupid, walk away as soon as said infection is noted.


There are few things more nauseating than pure obedience. ~ Kvothe

***8206;"silence is the language of god, all else is poor translation."
Rumi
Be a god. Know when to shut up.


Good Kharma Tags
Felurian
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 05-04-2012, 11:11 PM
stardogs stardogs is offline
Behavior Nerd
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: NC
Posts: 4,293
Default

Just an fyi, many schh/IPO and similar bitesport trained dogs are generally social - I don't know of many that would need the kind of training you describe. Kes and Aeri both are very social with visitors - to them bitework is a fun game only played in certain contexts.

I tend to go with Kat on this one - too much risk for liability here for me to even venture a comment on such a cue and its training. How hard is it to go over and welcome people in, really?
__________________
Erin, Ziva, Kestrel, Aerten, and Snipe
Always in our hearts: The Amazing Maggie Mae


Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 05-05-2012, 12:10 AM
AdrianneIsabel's Avatar
AdrianneIsabel AdrianneIsabel is offline
Glutton for Crazy
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 8,886
Default

We have a "enough" command which means literally, knock it the f off I've got it from here.

My ipo dogs are social but natural guards. I like them that way, that is normal and right imo.
__________________
Sloan von Krigbaum CGC BH CD NA NJ PD MJ-N RATI RATN 3/7/10 -
Shamoo NJ-N RATI RATN 3/1/98 -
Phelan du Loups du Soleil 6/15/13-

Arnold CGC TDI FD 6/29/04 - 07/05/13
Backup CGC HIC CD SRD SJ-N RATI 12/29/09 - 07/05/13

You were amazing, we did amazing things.


Harmony Canine, relationship based training.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 05-05-2012, 12:19 AM
Maliraptor's Avatar
Maliraptor Maliraptor is offline
Bite me.
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Southern California- The Desert Part
Posts: 820
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrianneIsabel View Post
We have a "enough" command which means literally, knock it the f off I've got it from here.

My ipo dogs are social but natural guards. I like them that way, that is normal and right imo.

Yep. I use "leave it!" even for people. But would never allow someone to just walk in my house like that. I protect my dog from people.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 05-05-2012, 01:55 AM
Panzerotti's Avatar
Panzerotti Panzerotti is offline
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Grande Prairie, AB
Posts: 949
Default

I totally agree with the majority here. Pan doesn't like strangers so unless it's a close family member coming in she is crated. I don't have to worry about someone getting bit and she doesn't have to worry about how to deal with strangers in her house, easier on everybody.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 05-05-2012, 10:46 AM
Gempress Gempress is offline
Walks into Mordor
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 11,955
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrianneIsabel View Post
We have a "enough" command which means literally, knock it the f off I've got it from here.

My ipo dogs are social but natural guards. I like them that way, that is normal and right imo.
That sounds like Voodoo, and I also like it. How did you go about training it? And no, it's not difficult to go and open the door. And I can put Voodoo in the crate when people are arriving, and probably will from this point out. But I'd like to at least try some kind of command in case a friend/neighbor ever walks inside unexpectedly when I'm on the other side of the house. Or, heaven forbid, I need an EMT or something and can't get to the door myself. Voodoo knows "leave it", and I've used it before, but I was wondering if there was a way to teach him a person-specific command.

And Kat, I don't agree with you saying my dog isn't "situationally conditioned". Not everyone wants a dog who unconditionally greets people with open arms. We've had guests on average 2-3 times a week since he was a puppy, including mobs of 30 or more. Voodoo's been conditioned to respond exactly the way I want him to. Never, ever has he threatened a guest we met at the door and invited inside.

Some training background, in case it will help: As Voodoo matured, his initial reaction was to threaten at the door. Initially, we'd praise his reaction, then tell him "ok", and give him praise when he stopped. Then we'd invite the person inside, while we were right there next to the door to keep control of Voodoo. He'd get more praise and treats for welcoming them calmly.

We thought that he viewed "ok" as his cue word. But the incident of the other day shows that we've inadvertently taught him that our physical presence at the door is part of the cue. I have no clue how to safely teach him a verbal-only cue for such a thing, or how possible it is. I suppose I could use "leave it", but honestly, I have no idea how to safely test it and work on his response. I don't want to get any training volunteers bitten.
__________________

Last edited by Gempress; 05-05-2012 at 11:00 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 05-05-2012, 11:40 AM
TrueToDogs TrueToDogs is offline
Active Pup
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Posts: 11
Default

Sorry, but I have to agree that this situation is a serious "accident" waiting to happen. Although you are aware of the problem so I don't think in court it would hold up as an accident.
I have trained countless personal protection dogs. A dog trained to protect you does so on command. NOT a decision the dog makes but the owner makes. Sure, he can protect when you are not home. That's his job. But it's also his job to look to you to determine if somebody is a threat.
That being said, I would highly recommend that you teach your dog a solid PLACE, DOWN, or KENNEL command. From your description it sounded like you knew that somebody was entering and your dog did not understand that and was surprised. Don't ever allow anybody to just enter without permission. But instead of just calling to invite them in command your dog first. Use a back tie if necessary in the beginning. Not holding him tightly (the command should be holding him not the leash). But the back tie will help to teach him in the beginning so that you can reinforce the command you had given without fear that he reaches the door.
My two cents, FWIW.

Lisa Flynn
http://www.TrueToDogs.com
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:49 AM.


1997-2013 Chazhound Dog Site