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Old 04-28-2012, 01:07 PM
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Aleron Aleron is offline
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Originally Posted by Laurelin View Post
Darn... making me covet pyr sheps again. I really do need to meet some.
LOL This reminds me of being told "they're too hyper to do anything with" and thinking "sounds fun!".

Originally Posted by golden&hovawart View Post
BTW,now that I am back,in Fr,I am thinking of getting another one.I like the breeders,here, better as they stay truer to the standard.
Also there is a difference of character in bet the Face Rase and the rough coated one.The face rase are calmer,a bit taller,a lot less hair and considered easier,for the 1st time owner.
LOL Someone forgot to tell Silvia Trkman's "Crazy Little La" that she is supposed to be calm

I have heard the SF are supposed to be friendlier, better for performance, etc. I'm not sure if there is much truth to it or not though. I've known a few Sf and they are friendly (one of Savvy's mom) but I've known RF who were equally friendly. I would have taken either variety but a SF puppy was the one who seemed perfect for me (although by no means calm LOL). He gre up to not be a SF though, so I don't know what that would mean! The SF in AKC are allowed to be a bit taller, although that doesn't make a lot of sense to me since they can come from the same litters as RF.

Originally Posted by golden&hovawart View Post
Also,a person that is hyper(in the negative sense) will not be a good fit with them.
This seems to for sure be the case if by hyper you mean uptight, nervous and easily freaked out by the "what if's" of their dog's behavior. I find this to be true of Belgians as well, although probably to an even greater degree in PyrSheps.

Originally Posted by golden&hovawart View Post
Many people wanted one,after meeting Daisy cos she was a very secure,loving and intelligent dog.She was also a bit of a circus dog & confortable in any situation.She could do anything you wanted.For an idear of height,my females were 17in and my males 19in which is within the standard but on the tall side.
I preferthe look of the rough coated over the Face Rase.
Best I can tell by the FCI standard is that males should be roughly 16.5" - 18.5" and females should be 15.5" to 18". With the 1/2" tolerance each direction for "perfectly typed specimens", you get an allowance for 15" - 18.5" for girls and 16" - 19" for males. The AKC standard isn't quite the same but it's still pretty close: "Rough-Faced: males: 15 to 18 inches at the withers, females: 15 to 18 inches. Smooth-Faced: males 15 to 21 inches at the withers, females 15 to 20 inches at the withers."

The thing with PyrSheps are they are within that medium size range that can be hard to main the Just Right size. The natural tendency seems to want to go either smaller or larger. Look at the size issues in Shelties (roughly in the same medium size range) - in one litter you can have undersized, just right and oversized out of just right parents. It's the same with PyrShps, although probably not quite as bad because they have a wider acceptable range. The variance in size is actually not a bad thing in a lower number breed. Many people won't breed dogs who are over or undersized enough to be DQ'd, so having a wider range allows more dogs to potentially remain in the gene pool. And truth be told, in a working situation I don't think the shepherds really cared if their dogs were within the "ideal size" or not. They cared the dog could get the job done. Some may have preferred smaller, some larger but I doubt they were measuring their working dogs and saying "nope too small/big to breed".

I don't know anyone in the US breeding smaller PyrSheps for Flyball, as they just aren't that popular in the sport. Maybe they are in Europe though? In the US, the dogs being bred for height dogs in Flyball are mixed breeds.

Originally Posted by Shai View Post
It's totally silly and aesthetic but I really wish they came smooth faced more often...probably 90% of the ones I've met have been rough and the few smooths are just so much more my style.
Not silly at all! RF would have never appealed to me 10 years ago, as I didn't like scruffy looking dogs. My tastes changed though because I met Laekenois and thought they were pretty neat. Now I really like the scruffy look in dogs LOL I like SF and RF both now

90% sounds just about right, as I have been told only about 10% of the breed is SF. There are some breedings done now for SF puppies, so if you want one you have a good chance if you buy from a SF x SF breeding. Historically, SF just occasionally popped up in RF litters. Some surprise you though, as they start off SF and get scruffy. Like Savvy!

SF baby Savvy 10 weeks

Getting scruffy... 5 months

Scruffy! 9 months

Savvy seems like he'll probably stay "Demi- rough", so a RF but without the full coat, full face. IOWs...he'll stay scruffy but not super hairy.

Savvy's mom is definitely a SF

And his dad is RF

Originally Posted by Shai View Post
Do the U.S. breeders dock/crop their dogs?
Yes and no. Cropped/docked, Cropped/natural, natural/docked and all natural are all equally allowable per the AKC standard. Savvy is obviously all natural but his brother was cropped/docked. His breeder does some and leaves some natural, some breeders dock all puppies and want all cropped, some leave them all natural and some do any combination. There is also a possibility for natural bobtails. Depending on when you get your puppy and how picky you are on ears, it can be up to you if you want to crop or not. Some people dock them late too. Some people glue natural ears to get them set right, some just leave them do what they'll do. In the show ring, you see all variety of looks for sure. I definitely had a preference of all natural but would have taken a cropped and/or docked puppy if it was the right puppy.

Originally Posted by Shai View Post
Do the U.S. breeders dock/crop their dogs?
Personality-wise I'd say 50% of the ones I've met are dogs I'd love to own (if they weren't rough! lol). Bright, funny, climbing the walls, very intense, athletic...just my kind of livewire. But about a quarter were just weird or semi nonfunctional...totally overwhelmed by their environment, excessively shy, etc. And they nearly all came from the same single breeder.[/QUOTE]

You and I like the same things in them

I've definitely seen PyrSheps I wouldn't want too. There is definitely a tendency in them towards being weird, reactive, etc and certainly in some more than others. They absolutely need the right sort of socialization and training from an early age and GoldenHovawart gave great advice on choosing a puppy I think. Most in the US/Canada come from one of two big breeders or people who got their dogs from those breeders, so there is definitely a wide range even from the same lines. Although saying "lines" may not be entirely accurate. The breed as a whole is pretty inbred, so they're mostly all related anyway at least, that is my understanding.
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