BC breeders for me

[Linds]

Originally Posted by AdrianneIsabel

Oh and if you do go with CP, don't tell her she has sporter collies. LOL

OT bur for those that know, is Sporter Collie an insult? Do most BC breeders who focus on sports not appreciate it? Or Elegy, do you not like it if Steve's called a Sporter Collie?

I ask because honestly, I think it's fun to say and shorter than Sport Bred Border Collie so I do use that term but if it's insulting I'd move away from saying it.

ETA: Patron is so cool looking, I love seeing pictures of him

[AdrianneIsabel]

It's insulting to call them sport bred collies just like its insulting to call a (insert working breed) dog a show bred dog. Mostly because there is still a strong demand that border collies belong on the ranch, working sheep, and not playing silly sports or worse showing in conformation thus being labeled Barbie collies.

So yeah, insulting depending on ones opinions I suppose.

*i obviously don't own any collies so this is all outside perception, I train with a ton and really appreciate them, finding myself very jealous at times(especially when they're more flexible than my bitch) but I'm in no hurry to dive in myself.

[SaraB]

I know several HN borders as well that are very successful in agility and have not seen any indication of ETS. I loooooove their temperaments and if I were looking at getting a BC, I would most likely go there.

[RD]

I think the term sporter collie originated as a jab towards the breeding of dogs for sport, but a lot of people have adopted it as an affectionate term. Same with the term "barbie collie" for show bred BCs.

Laur, I don't know if you've been in touch with Patrick Shannahan about his dogs yet, but I would still recommend it. I don't recall his stance on AKC/ILP registering, but I know he prefers to have dogs wait until adulthood to be altered. I don't know if the working type dogs are the kind you're interested in still, but I thought I'd drop in a suggestion!

I don't know much about AKC. Considering you might not be participating in trials with your dog in obedience/agility/herding whatever until the dog is mature, anyway, is it possible to ILP/PAL a dog as a young adult?

[AdrianneIsabel]

Yes, Arnold almost did get his AKC registry a few weeks ago and he's 7.5 yrs. (then I took him to run agility after 6 years off, hilarity ensued and I rehung up that leash)

[Aleron]

Originally Posted by SaraB

I know several HN borders as well that are very successful in agility and have not seen any indication of ETS. I loooooove their temperaments and if I were looking at getting a BC, I would most likely go there.

TBH If I were looking to get a great BC, I'd probably go to the farm one of my friends got their very sport capable BC from. Dogs bred for herding, no health checks but the dogs work every day and people from all over get herding dogs from him. And now there's now a few in performance homes too. I think he sells puppies for $300 and no contract but I know he will take dogs back if they don't work out. That's just me though and such a breeder doesn't fit what Laurelin said she wanted, so I listed BC breeders who do and who's dogs I have liked.

Originally Posted by AdrianneIsabel

It's insulting to call them sport bred collies just like its insulting to call a (insert working breed) dog a show bred dog.

I would think it'd be more comparable to calling show bred BCs Barbie Collies? I don't think most show people find the term show bred to be insulting or working bred for that matter. Barbie Collie, I'm not sure LOL I know a lot of people who show and call them Barbie Collies but I don't know really any show BC people though.

[Linds]

Originally Posted by Aleron

I would think it'd be more comparable to calling show bred BCs Barbie Collies? I don't think most show people find the term show bred to be insulting or working bred for that matter. Barbie Collie, I'm not sure LOL I know a lot of people who show and call them Barbie Collies but I don't know really any show BC people though.

You see, I can understand why Barbie Collies could be insulting, but Sporter I just don't get. I mean, I guess I put it up there with the way some Aussies address conformation people as Showies (Showey's? Can never remember). Just a shortened but descriptive name. And if a BC breeder was breeding primarily for sport I want to know why they find it insulting.

[Laurelin]

I know some show BC people and they will use the term sarcastically especially when talking about performance stuff they are doing with their dogs. Most sport people I know in real life are very adamant that their dogs are 'working bred' border collies even if the dogs come from a big name sport breeder. I do think some of them are starting to try to 'own' the term sporter collie though.

I'm still very interested in the working trial bred type dogs but I really am realizing lately that I need health clearances on this next dog. And the more research I am doing now to look at what trials are available around here, I do think I will regret not having a dog that could do AKC performance. So those two things are new requirements. You can PAL at a later date so that would be the route I'd go if I need to neuter and then PAL the dog.

I just want to look at all the options and find the kind of dog I want to live with and a really good breeder to go with.

[Laurelin]

Originally Posted by Linds

You see, I can understand why Barbie Collies could be insulting, but Sporter I just don't get. I mean, I guess I put it up there with the way some Aussies address conformation people as Showies (Showey's? Can never remember). Just a shortened but descriptive name. And if a BC breeder was breeding primarily for sport I want to know why they find it insulting.

There are people in BCs that think if you do not breed primarily for work the dogs are not border collies. The idea behind these names are that neither sport bred collies or show bred collies are actually 'border' collies. The fight is over the name, the working folk will tell you the sporters and the barbies are not the same animal, and are not real border collies. So they need to be called something else. It is absolutely an insult coming from certain people.

People generally don't take well to other people telling them that their dogs are not really the breed they think of them as.

I don't have a horse in this fight so to speak (at leas yet). I'm pretty indifferent either way.

[Linds]

Originally Posted by Laurelin

There are people in BCs that think if you do not breed primarily for work the dogs are not border collies. The idea behind these names are that neither sport bred collies or show bred collies are actually 'border' collies. The fight is over the name, the working folk will tell you the sporters and the barbies are not the same animal, and are not real border collies. So they need to be called something else. It is absolutely an insult coming from certain people.

Now see, that I can understand a bit more. I know the BC world is pretty vicious and that if you don't have a ranch bred dog from a line of working farm dogs you typically have to defend your dog more often than not.

I guess I just like the term Sporter Collie because I still think of it as a Border Collie, just one bred for primarily for sport, which I don't have an issue with. And like I said, it's fun to say I think I would so introduce a BC of mine as a Sporter Collie if I had one. But, I'm not in the BC world and I don't want to be going around insulting people's dogs or breeding, especially when I don't mean to be insulting.

Sorry to derail your thread Laur!