Non-surgical Neuter?

[SaraB]

Most of the ones I'm seeing arn't my training clients, they are clients at the vet clinic I work at. I'm glad your family has had great success, I'm just relaying my experience.

[BostonBanker]

I'm not sure what is supposed to be so difficult about intact males. I grew up with two intact male dogs and average pet owning parents.

I consider myself maybe a small step above the average pet owner, and holy flipping cow do I like Gusto better as a neutered dog. I'm sure there are those who will say it is a fluke/his behavior was about to change anyway/I wanted to see the change. Whatever. I'm glad I waited until he was finished growing for the most part, but I am so glad I had it done.

I certainly have no qualms with those who choose to keep their males intact, as long as they are preventing them from breeding. It is not the right answer for me for sure!

[Emily]

My experience with client dogs has not shown me that altered males are any easier for the average person to handle than normal ones. *shrug* Most people can't handle dogs, period, and I've not seen that there's a huge difference between alters and males - certainly not the behaviors that really matter to pet people.

I have had a couple people ask me if they "should" neuter their adult dogs. I just ask if they're unhappy with the dog now, and does the dog roam unsupervised? If both answers are no, then I recommend they save themselves the $300, lol.

AFA the zuetering goes we have a dog at work that was done this way... no idea if he was part of trial, or something? I just remember we had to call the owner because she marked "neutered" on his paperwork but he clearly had nuts. He still looks intact structurally (and no, I don't mean that he has visible testicles), so that's nice. He does like to mark and still acts generally "male".

I've read that the injections halve testosterone production, so it's not something I'd do for my dogs, but seeing that the dog done that way at work looks/acts normal, I'd consider it if I were in the position of altering a foster dog before rehoming, or something.

[elegy]

Originally Posted by SaraB

Your average pet owner does not want to deal with the behaviors associated with an intact male dog and many are just flat out not equipped to deal with them.

I dunno, I tend to think with the heavy-duty pro-spay/neuter stance in this country, we actively select against responsible average pet owners owning intact dogs. Most "good" pet owners spay/neuter because that's what it's drilled into their head is the "right" and "responsible" thing to do. So it could be that we would have a bunch of completely appropriate intact dogs living in these households with their involved, responsible owners if these dogs were allowed to make it out of their childhoods with their goolies attached.

I mean, I look at the clinic where I work- who doesn't spay/neuter? The people who are breeding (most of whom should not be), the people who don't want to spend money on vet care, the people who are worried about their dogs not looking manly, and the occasional sport person (usually field work).

[Emily]

Originally Posted by elegy

I dunno, I tend to think with the heavy-duty pro-spay/neuter stance in this country, we actively select against responsible average pet owners owning intact dogs. Most "good" pet owners spay/neuter because that's what it's drilled into their head is the "right" and "responsible" thing to do. So it could be that we would have a bunch of completely appropriate intact dogs living in these households with their involved, responsible owners if these dogs were allowed to make it out of their childhoods with their goolies attached.

I mean, I look at the clinic where I work- who doesn't spay/neuter? The people who are breeding (most of whom should not be), the people who don't want to spend money on vet care, the people who are worried about their dogs not looking manly, and the occasional sport person (usually field work).

+1

This has been my experience too.

[Aleron]

Originally Posted by Emily

+1

This has been my experience too.

Yeah me too. And honestly, I think a lot of it is perception due to the constant drilling about how horrible it is to have intact dogs and how much easier and better it is to have altered ones. People hear that so much and tend to blame everything they dislike behaviorally about their dog with the dog being intact. Especially with males. They neuter and their perception of the dog's behavior changes, even if the dog is actually still just as much of a jerk LOL

In Europe, dogs are almost always left intact, bitches in season aren't banned from trials or training and my understand is that it is a non-issue, no one thinks much of it because it's the norm there. Here, it's more like "OMG how can people run intact males in agility with bitches in season at trials!?!" Here, not only is it rare for bitches to be allowed to attend training classes while in season (even mentioning it tends to cause most people to freak out) but there's no way they can participate in most competitions when in season. And good luck getting a full refund if your girl has bad timing. Bitches can't even run in lure coursing alone if they are in season and they are seriously checked prior to every run. Yep - can't even pay for your bitch in season to chase a plastic bag around a large open field (outside...) because she might be too much of a distraction

I guess it can be summed up by saying... Americans are extremely uptight about dogs being left intact. And being so uptight tends to led to "issues" - both issues of perception and actual issues. If AR had decided to use their propaganda and celebrity spokespeople and what not to drill into people "train and contain" rather than "spay/neuter!", we'd probably have a lot more intact dogs and a lot less problems. Of course, that doesn't further their agenda the way removing as many dogs as possible from the gene pool does.

[Emily]

Originally Posted by Aleron

They neuter and their perception of the dog's behavior changes, even if the dog is actually still just as much of a jerk LOL

I know, and I love how like 2 weeks later the dog is magically much improved, despite the fact that it takes waaaaaaay, WAY longer than that for the hormones to clear their system. It's like as soon as the owner isn't looking at balls, the dog got "fixed" and must be better!

[BostonBanker]

Yup, I'm just an idiot

[Romy]

Originally Posted by Emily

I know, and I love how like 2 weeks later the dog is magically much improved, despite the fact that it takes waaaaaaay, WAY longer than that for the hormones to clear their system. It's like as soon as the owner isn't looking at balls, the dog got "fixed" and must be better!

One of my friends got her 8 month old roudy male neutered and the next day was like, "OH MY GOSH THE TRANSFORMATION IS AMAZING!!!!" I just laughed because the anesthesia was still wearing off.

Two weeks later, she was like, "THIS MADE NO DIFFERENCE WHATSOEVER AAAARRRGH!!!!"

lol

[Aleron]

Originally Posted by Romy

One of my friends got her 8 month old roudy male neutered and the next day was like, "OH MY GOSH THE TRANSFORMATION IS AMAZING!!!!" I just laughed because the anesthesia was still wearing off.

Two weeks later, she was like, "THIS MADE NO DIFFERENCE WHATSOEVER AAAARRRGH!!!!"

lol

Now that is funny!

Although it's a bit sad that someone would think it's great that after a surgery their dog's temperament changed to that of tranquilized dog.