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  #11  
Old 03-12-2012, 09:13 PM
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Dekka Dekka is offline
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I agree on the tricks!!

But my take is that stay isn't just in the 'obedience bailiwick' but its also a part of agility (for the most part)
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  #12  
Old 03-12-2012, 09:25 PM
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AdrianneIsabel AdrianneIsabel is offline
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Certain things about having trained formal obedience first have been slightly hindering for my dogs in agility. That said I'm not an expert so maybe the experts, like SG, have a better way of transitioning dogs.

I trained my dog specifics of what heel meant and how to come to it and the importance of staying on one side, etc. Sloan and Backup are both very uncomfortable with coming to my right side. They also have a lot of handler focus which has caused some issues when I am asking them to look at (don't run into!) and look for (don't rely on me too much) an obstacle. <--- This is what my trainers have said is the biggest hinderance for obedience trained dogs, convincing their dogs it's more than okay, it is right, to look away from the handler for the duration of the run.

These things (and more) are of course not killer to an agility career and in my world Obedience is more important than agility so I don't totally regret the order we went in but I have noticed some issues.

One way to combat the issue is I try my hardest to not cross train any commands. Heel on my left is Fuss in Obedience, I call it "Get in" in agility. Heel on the right does not exist in obedience, I call it "close" in agility. I use "come" and never "here" for Backup because he is too easily confused, I do use "here" for Sloan but I almost never do formal obedience with her and I think she can differentiate between her dad and I.

Also I don't ask for obedience from Sloan in agility for the most part. I ask for a killer start line, which did come from obedience, I ask for a strong recall, which did come from obedience, and that is it really. All other commands are agility specific and it seems to work best this way.
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  #13  
Old 03-12-2012, 09:43 PM
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Dekka Dekka is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrianneIsabel View Post
They also have a lot of handler focus which has caused some issues when I am asking them to look at (don't run into!) and look for (don't rely on me too much) an obstacle. <--- This is what my trainers have said is the biggest hinderance for obedience trained dogs, convincing their dogs it's more than okay, it is right, to look away from the handler for the duration of the run.
This was Dekka's biggest issue when we changed focus (for those that don't know I started out in formal obed) She would run into the weaves due to focusing on me. I had to click for moments of looking away/at the weaves.

LOL now I have a dog who has a habit of blowing me off when high.. sigh.
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  #14  
Old 03-14-2012, 10:28 AM
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Thanks for the advice and links. I'm likely never going to compete in agility or anything (unless Tucker happens to be amazing or something) so I do really want to work on his obedience more. Plus all the classes I'm looking at have some obedience requirement as a prerequisite. These are the three places I'm looking at (chosen because of proximity and use of positive training methods...or at least they say they use positive training methods):

http://www.masterpeacedog.com/

Quote:
Beginner Agility: This is a 6 week course which safely introduces the obstacles and begins small sequences. This may be taken as a prelude to competition or just for fun.
Basic Obedience is a prerequisite for Agility Courses. (Participation in either Puppy Kindergarten or Beginner Pet fulfills this requirement.)
http://www.family-dog-training.com/

Quote:
Agility Prep - This 6-week class teaches the foundation skills to get your dog started in the fun sport of Canine Agility. Pre-requisite is Good Dog 101 or 201 (or equivalent).
http://www.dogslearningcenter.com/

Quote:
Beginner Agility 1: 6 weeks, Combines a foundation on all agility equipment and foundation skills to handle your dog on a course. Pre-requisite of 2 levels basic clicker training for general control or equivalent. Dogs should be able to sit, lie down, stay come, and walk with you on leash.

I'll likely go with one of the second two because they actually mention foundation/handling skills and talk more about their training methods on their sites.
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  #15  
Old 03-14-2012, 12:41 PM
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lizzybeth727 lizzybeth727 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxy24 View Post
Plus all the classes I'm looking at have some obedience requirement as a prerequisite.
For most pet dog owners, "obedience" means that the dog knows sit and down, walks on leash without pulling most of the time, can do a recall on a long line, etc. You can look at the course descriptions for the prerequisites, but generally trainers just want to avoid having to show an owner how to teach sit during agility class.
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  #16  
Old 03-14-2012, 12:45 PM
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AdrianneIsabel AdrianneIsabel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lizzybeth727 View Post
For most pet dog owners, "obedience" means that the dog knows sit and down, walks on leash without pulling most of the time, can do a recall on a long line, etc. You can look at the course descriptions for the prerequisites, but generally trainers just want to avoid having to show an owner how to teach sit during agility class.
This! Formal and basic obedience are very different.
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Sloan von Krigbaum IPO1 CGC BH CD NA NJ PD MJ-N RATI RATN 3/7/10 -
Shamoo NJ-N RATI RATN 3/1/98 -
Phelan du Loups du Soleil CGC RATI 6/15/13 -
Chili Brigades Brover 5/23/14 -

Arnold CGC TDI FD 6/29/04 - 07/05/13
Backup CGC HIC CD SRD SJ-N RATI 12/29/09 - 07/05/13

You were amazing, we did amazing things.


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  #17  
Old 03-14-2012, 12:59 PM
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PWCorgi PWCorgi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxy24 View Post
Do you think he would get rejected from a class because he is fearful of strangers? He won't just randomly react to people, they'd have to try and touch him, but I don't know what the policies generally are for aggressive dogs and whether the teacher/other people in class are generally involved in handling your dog at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lizzybeth727 View Post
You'll definately need to tell your trainer about this before you start the class. Most of the time it can be managed, but there will be times when your trainer may need to hold your dog for restrained recalls and such.
Definitely contact them ahead of time, like Lizzybeth says, and beyond that I would go and watch the instructor teach a few classes before taking the class, if at all possible. One of the nosework classes Frodo and I took had an instructor that was fine with reactive dogs being in her class. However, I had to remind her every time that we came in to do a search that she couldn't take boxes away from him, and then when he FOUND the source I would again have to remind her that I had to be the person to remove things from him, because she would forget and keep trying. So even though an instructor may be fine having a dog like that in class, it's also important to find out how much experience they have with it and how that changes how they behave in the class.
When I worked on restrained recalls in PA, we just had someone hold the end of Frodo's leash, since he doesn't like strangers touching him, especially when he is wound up.


(I don't want to sound like I didn't like that Nosework instructor, I certainly did and I was very appreciative that she let Frodo in her class, but if I hadn't been more vocal each time about Frodo's issues, someone could have been hurt.)
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