Dog Site - Dog Stuff
Dog Forum | Dog Pictures

Go Back   Chazhound Dog Forum > Dog Discussions and Dog Talk Forums > Dog Training Forum


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #111  
Old 02-28-2012, 11:31 AM
adojrts's Avatar
adojrts adojrts is offline
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 4,089
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrianneIsabel View Post
I totally agree, what would you recommend for a dog that is uncomfortable with shaping and does much better with manipulation?
I have students that wouldn't want to even try free shaping let alone their dogs, so I have to get a little creative. I do have a set of channels and in those cases it is just easier to train that method.

I love the 2x2's, but it like so many other methods isn't for everyone or every dog.
Reply With Quote
  #112  
Old 02-28-2012, 11:32 AM
Shai's Avatar
Shai Shai is offline
& the Muttly Crew
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 6,121
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrianneIsabel View Post
I totally agree, what would you recommend for a dog that is uncomfortable with shaping and does much better with manipulation?
One of two things:

(A) Go back and help the dog to understand free shaping outside the xontext of agility. Be extremely self-disciplined and positive. Don't try 2x2 again until you have an engaged dog who understands the game.

(B) Use a different method (channel, WOM, whatever)

JMO
__________________

ARCHX U-CD Kim MX MXJ NF CL3-SF RL3/2X/1X-COE CGC -- Golden Ditzhund, b. ~Mar'07
MACH ARCHX U-CD Webster MXB MJB RL3/2X/1X-COE CGC -- Flying Houdini, b. ~Jun'07
Mira CD JH MX MXB MXJ MJB CGC WCX -- Princess Cheeseface, b. Jul'09
Lodin -- Crazy Monkeybean, b. Dec'13
Reply With Quote
  #113  
Old 02-28-2012, 01:18 PM
Panzerotti's Avatar
Panzerotti Panzerotti is online now
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Grande Prairie, AB
Posts: 971
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by adojrts View Post
2x2 is 12 poles in 12 days, the average dog owner (with an understanding of the method) takes a bit longer, typcially 3-4 wks.

General rule of thumb is 3 sessions per day, for a MAX of 3-4 mins long.

The owner also has to know what DASH means; Desire, Accuracy, Speed, Habitat.

I am going to give a word of warning here, the 2x2 method is wonderful but like any other method it will fail if not trained correctly with a full understanding of the method and how to progress. The dogs that progress the best are the ones that already KNOW how to free shape. Otherwise it is stressful for them and they don't understand. The entire method is based upon a dog understanding that failures are ok and to try again, therefore they don't stress or give up. It is also critical that the hanlder/owner working a free shaping session is to NOT make those little signs of disappointment, that will shut a dog down in a heartbeat or at the very least demotivates a dog.
It is strongly recommended that you teach your dog to free shape first and have your dog confident in that before tackling the 2x2 method (that comes from SG and the DVD).

Best plan would be for you to get the DVD or get to a trainer that fully understands the method.
Great post. 2x2 is very likely not going to work if the person doing the training doesn't have a firm grasp on the method, and the pre-req skills and knowledge related to shaping behaviours.

Samsonyte, if you still want to try, is it possible for you to buy the 2x2 DVD, and/or the book Shaping Success?
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #114  
Old 02-28-2012, 07:57 PM
Samsonyte!'s Avatar
Samsonyte! Samsonyte! is offline
Show Dog
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 212
Default

I might be able to get the book but all the sites which sell the dvd have them for almost 70 dollars? Do you know if there's any website which explains it in more detail then?

Sam has class tonight so I'll ask his trainer if she knows anything about them and if she does I might take a private lesson or two just to get a better understanding. Sam hasn't done great with shaping in the past but I also haven't tried it with him in a while so we'll see!
__________________

Sam the little black mutt and Wilson the border collie
Reply With Quote
  #115  
Old 02-29-2012, 11:05 AM
AdrianneIsabel's Avatar
AdrianneIsabel AdrianneIsabel is offline
Glutton for Crazy
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 8,893
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by adojrts View Post
I have students that wouldn't want to even try free shaping let alone their dogs, so I have to get a little creative. I do have a set of channels and in those cases it is just easier to train that method.

I love the 2x2's, but it like so many other methods isn't for everyone or every dog.
Thank you for your response. I ask because I have a dog that free shaping only overly stresses him out. The 2 x 2s seem to start to click but it took a very long time and they were never reliable with him. He just didn't learn the same as my other two who picked them up immediately, the other two also though are fabulous at free shaping.

I have shelved his agility for some time, I just don't know how to reach him, don't have the resources, and one sport at a time seems more than enough for him so we're focusing on his ob, tracking, and bitework for now. When we readdress the issue we'll consider channels for him or another more manipulative method.
__________________
Sloan von Krigbaum IPO1 CGC BH CD NA NJ PD MJ-N RATI RATN 3/7/10 -
Shamoo NJ-N RATI RATN 3/1/98 -
Phelan du Loups du Soleil CGC RATI 6/15/13 -
Chili Brigades Brover 5/23/14 -

Arnold CGC TDI FD 6/29/04 - 07/05/13
Backup CGC HIC CD SRD SJ-N RATI 12/29/09 - 07/05/13

You were amazing, we did amazing things.


Harmony Canine, relationship based training.
Reply With Quote
  #116  
Old 02-29-2012, 12:00 PM
Laurelin's Avatar
Laurelin Laurelin is online now
I'm All Ears
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 29,982
Default

Foundations class begins on March 8th. I'm going to die of anticipation before then.
__________________
Mia CGC - (5 year old Papillon)
Hank - (approx. 1 year old Spotty Dog)
Summer TG3 TIAD - (10 year old Papillon)
Reply With Quote
  #117  
Old 02-29-2012, 12:31 PM
adojrts's Avatar
adojrts adojrts is offline
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 4,089
Default

This is a awesome thread and I would like to suggest we add another element to it. A proofing challenge for agility training for the different levels that people are at with their dogs. Clearly some proofing/challenges should not be done until you have achived a certain level of training, so please be careful and possibly ask before trying something. Nothing is worse than over facing your dog at the wrong time.

Want to play?? I have 3 different level challenges that I could post in a heartbeat
Reply With Quote
  #118  
Old 02-29-2012, 12:35 PM
Panzerotti's Avatar
Panzerotti Panzerotti is online now
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Grande Prairie, AB
Posts: 971
Default

Whatchya got?

I can't really participate though, we are still in total training, in the middle of behaviour, mode.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #119  
Old 02-29-2012, 12:46 PM
Shai's Avatar
Shai Shai is offline
& the Muttly Crew
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 6,121
Default

Bring it on
__________________

ARCHX U-CD Kim MX MXJ NF CL3-SF RL3/2X/1X-COE CGC -- Golden Ditzhund, b. ~Mar'07
MACH ARCHX U-CD Webster MXB MJB RL3/2X/1X-COE CGC -- Flying Houdini, b. ~Jun'07
Mira CD JH MX MXB MXJ MJB CGC WCX -- Princess Cheeseface, b. Jul'09
Lodin -- Crazy Monkeybean, b. Dec'13
Reply With Quote
  #120  
Old 02-29-2012, 01:10 PM
adojrts's Avatar
adojrts adojrts is offline
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 4,089
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Panzerotti View Post
Whatchya got?

I can't really participate though, we are still in total training, in the middle of behaviour, mode.
I'll start with exercises that don't require any equipment and can be for any level of training/competing

Challenge #1: Proofing Startline Stays.

How far can you go?
What can you tempt your dog with and still have them hold the stay.
Handler running 360's around the dog.

Challenge #2: Pause Table: (can also use a mat if you don't have a table handy).

Sending: How far away?
Pancake Downs? How Fast?
Toys and Treats thrown, dog doesn't break from the Table/Mat.
Race the dog to the Table/Mat, dog downs, YOU keep running beyond the Table/Mat. Do they stay?

Challenge #3: Distance Skills and Footwork for Distance.

Sending to and running around any object i.e bush, tall pylon, water cooler bottle, chair etc (anything as high or higher than the dogs shoulder that you can reach over).

How far can you send to?
How fast?
Front Cross and send to another object?

And for anyone thinking this is too easy, either post a challenge or I have others for weaves, contacts etc
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:17 PM.


1997-2013 Chazhound Dog Site