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  #21  
Old 02-08-2012, 01:21 PM
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I don't find a running contact always works best at least not with AAC courses. A friend just sent me a vid (its private or I would link to it) from a masters standard course. The dog ends up flying straight down a line to the teeter. RIGHT after the teeter is a jump.. then the finish line. But your dog cant' take the jump going towards the 'crowd' it has to go around the jump and jump it back towards the teeter. Now a fast dog with an early commitment point is likely going to commit to that jump, now if you call off you risk a fly off the teeter or maybe a redirect to another jump that would be between the handler and the dog at that point.

Now I am sure it is possible with a running contact. But it takes way more other skills for the dog to be profficient in. You can release as soon as the dog collects so the dog doesn't have to fully stop or you can ask them to hold it.. depending on what is requried. Kaiden has running contacts, but he's not all that fast so its no biggie. Dekka is VERY fast and low on impulse control. I will stick to my 2o/2o

Panzerotti....Sadly I don't get to barrie much (though I am driving to Sudbury next month lol) I might hit a muskoka trial (if they are still having them.. not sure)
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  #22  
Old 02-08-2012, 01:49 PM
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So today's RC training was awesome! And of course I didn't get video.

I was able to pack the board into the snow a bit (bit more like a carpet that way, flatter on the ground), I put up a few sticks to make a little channel, and I moved it all to a large area so that I could really whip her ball and get her running. It was way more fun than last time, and by the end I was able to start her further back and send her while throwing her ball. Fun stuff!
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  #23  
Old 02-08-2012, 01:55 PM
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Dekka you make a good point regarding different challenges in different venues re: RCs vs. Stopped, etc. Not that it can't be done but that certain things have to be taken into account. In CPE for instance RCs would definitely be very doable...same with NADAC. With AKC you start running into interesting hallenges...doable yes definitely but you better either be fast as a handler or have taught a lot of verbal skills to compensate. Sounds like you guys incorporate even more of the FCI type course elements which would be even more complicating.

Not saying one is better than the other...that's a decision to be made on a team-by-team basis...just saying that while RCs are definitely flashier they may or may not be faster, depending on the team and the course in question.
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  #24  
Old 02-08-2012, 02:06 PM
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Sloan and I had a lot of fun in our handling skills class last night. We're really getting in sync with one another for our rear-crosses and our teeter settling.
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  #25  
Old 02-08-2012, 02:07 PM
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Agreed. AAC Master's courses can be very challenging and involve a lot of tight turns. And Silvia Trkman has mentioned that with the increasing popularity of running contacts, judges have been throwing tight turns and traps after contacts a lot.

That reminds me, I have to start training directionals soon! :P
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  #26  
Old 02-08-2012, 02:53 PM
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those are some fast dogs in those videos, nice
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  #27  
Old 02-08-2012, 04:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Panzerotti View Post
So today's RC training was awesome! And of course I didn't get video.

I was able to pack the board into the snow a bit (bit more like a carpet that way, flatter on the ground), I put up a few sticks to make a little channel, and I moved it all to a large area so that I could really whip her ball and get her running. It was way more fun than last time, and by the end I was able to start her further back and send her while throwing her ball. Fun stuff!
That sounds perfect and I could see how that would make a big difference. From what I've seen/read, the reason for the carpet and/or wider flatter plank is that you're way more likely to get actual running when there's little to no difference between the object and the ground. So having the board in snow would help accomplish the same thing.

And next time - video!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dekka View Post
I don't find a running contact always works best at least not with AAC courses. A friend just sent me a vid (its private or I would link to it) from a masters standard course. The dog ends up flying straight down a line to the teeter. RIGHT after the teeter is a jump.. then the finish line. But your dog cant' take the jump going towards the 'crowd' it has to go around the jump and jump it back towards the teeter. Now a fast dog with an early commitment point is likely going to commit to that jump, now if you call off you risk a fly off the teeter or maybe a redirect to another jump that would be between the handler and the dog at that point.
FWIW The teeter is generally not trained as a RC, as there is some degree of pausing needed to correctly perform it. When people talk about RCs, they are generally talking about a-frame and dogwalk. Plenty of people use running contacts in Europe, where challenges like you mention are pretty common on courses. But yeah, you need to teach the dog turns off the contacts or you can have issues with off courses.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dekka View Post
Now I am sure it is possible with a running contact. But it takes way more other skills for the dog to be profficient in. You can release as soon as the dog collects so the dog doesn't have to fully stop or you can ask them to hold it.. depending on what is requried. Kaiden has running contacts, but he's not all that fast so its no biggie. Dekka is VERY fast and low on impulse control. I will stick to my 2o/2o
An early release is a happy enough compromise between the two for a lot of people. Polona Bona***269; trained her dog to do both a RC and a 2o2o which is pretty cool! So I guess that is an option too
http://youtu.be/H9pJFYIEECU

I wish I had known more about RC training when Ziggy was young. He has HopeNPray style contacts. Well I'm not sure that's even entirely accurate...he has Race'em to the End and Try to Slow 'em Down or Distract 'em style contacts He's so fast, frantic, easily frustrated and has such little impulse control that I have a feeling maintaining 2o2o contacts would have been an ongoing battle. Being a Corgi 2o2o may have been a bit awkward for him anyway. Trained RCs would have been ideal and I may still play around with that, although he's 8 1/2 now (where does the time go?).

Whim's 2o2o contacts are pretty good, although it's hard to continue to maintain speed all the way down and the stop at the end. I do early release sometimes with her, mostly to encourage the speed. I think she's only missed a contact once at a trial and it was her first trial and a UKC trial with a tiny a-frame. She's getting better and better now with sticking her contacts while I run past and with distance work. Next I'll have to work on her going ahead of me and holding 2o2o. Jagger has a 4on contact that has degraded a lot over the years, not in the missed contact way but in the sliding down the a-frame anticipating a release way. The creeping/sliding/anticipation issues seem to be a pretty common problem with 2o2o for a lot of dogs/people.

I think the basics of 2o2o can be much easier to train than a RC. However, to get a solid no matter where the handler is or what is going on 2o2o while maintaining good speed and no creeping probably takes at least as much work as a trained RC. Although I'm not sure it requires as much space. To teach RCs you really do need to have access to at least a dogwalk 2-3x a week at a point. The early work can all be down with a plank but at a point, you need the DW. 2o2o training can be practiced a bit more creatively.
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  #28  
Old 02-08-2012, 05:04 PM
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I always like agility threads! I need to get some video of Gusto and the work he's doing right now. He just blows my mind (in such a good way!) with how quickly he picks stuff up and how much drive he puts into everything. He saw his first (lowered) dog walk last week in class, and we were just having them jump on a table next to it, then run down the plank to their contact behavior (2o2o for Gusto - not messing with that!). We are in session three of a Performance Puppy class with the same trainer I use for Meg, and I love it. Lots of work on balancing control and drive (crate games, zen, restrained recalls), flatwork stuff (flip, wraps around jump standards, front crosses) and just getting into the actual equipment. This puppy makes me so excited for the day he gets to start trialling!

Meg is sort of on maintenance at this point, with some sessions focused on distance work whenever we can make it happen. She got Masters Gamble #4 this past weekend, and we now just need the last one for her ADCH. I'm hoping to get that and her Tournament Masters title (she just needs one more team Q for that) in February/March, and I probably won't trial her a ton after that. A few favorite events only. I had thought about going for her MACH, as I think AKC will be far more her speed than USDAA, but I'm not sure I want to put the money into it right now. I've promised her she never has to run Gamblers or Pairs again once she gets that ADCH, so we will just play around with things like Snooker, Standard, Jumpers and Steeplechase, all of which she loves. She's given me more than I ever had a right to expect, and I suspect she will be thrilled to let Gusto take her place on the start line!
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  #29  
Old 02-08-2012, 05:10 PM
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Steve's doing stopped contacts for my sake. He is so fast and I am so green and I need those stopped contacts in order to mentally catch up. I figure I can always use an early release when it's appropriate. Stopped contacts also seem infinitely easier to teach, and that's good for me!
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  #30  
Old 02-08-2012, 05:27 PM
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We've gone to training almost exclusively running contacts at my facility. With the exception of a few dogs for whom a stop is a necessity (body type or REALLY slow handler), all the newbies are learning RC's.

I love runnings. My dog is a crazy speed demon, but I've yet to find a running contact to be a hindrance. It just means I handle certain things differently. (To clarify though, I'm really only talking about the frame/dog walk. The teeter I guess is a running (she doesn't wait at the bottom once it's hit the ground), but it's kind of a stop by default since she has to wait for it to lower).

We've just signed up for a distance class starting next month. It's something that's going to be a big challenge for me, but I think it will be fun!
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