Well, thats' one way to enforce the leash law . . .

[Doberluv]

Originally Posted by yoko

But like I said earlier the second he gave bad info he gave up the right to have some handle him nonviolently. She couldn't find legit info on it. She didn't know if he had warrant or a history of violence.

And if he really did have a heart condition he shouldn't have 1. Dared her to tase him and 2. walked away after being told by an office to stay there.

If this guy was just a jerk and ignored her I'd say no using a taser was out of line. But on a guy who is obviously being a jerk, ignoring an officer *I don't care if she was JUST at park ranger*, hiding his identity, giving false information then yes when he tried to leave after being told to stay I think he took being tased into his own hands. If anything had happened, which it didn't other than some jerk got tased, I feel it is his own fault for ignoring a simple command that my dog understands.

See, this is where you and I differ in our opinions. I don't agree that giving false information equals giving up the right to be treated humanely. I think the excessive use of force, painful punishment or detainment is only warranted when someone is threatening violence or is a danger to others. He clearly wasn't. He was walking away....with his back turned when she went after him with the stun gun. The use of this potentially dangerous, electric shocking device, which can cause heart fibrillation is not commensurate to the "crime."

[sillysally]

Originally Posted by yoko

But like I said earlier the second he gave bad info he gave up the right to have some handle him nonviolently. She couldn't find legit info on it. She didn't know if he had warrant or a history of violence.

And if he really did have a heart condition he shouldn't have 1. Dared her to tase him and 2. walked away after being told by an office to stay there.

If this guy was just a jerk and ignored her I'd say no using a taser was out of line. But on a guy who is obviously being a jerk, ignoring an officer *I don't care if she was JUST at park ranger*, hiding his identity, giving false information then yes when he tried to leave after being told to stay I think he took being tased into his own hands. If anything had happened, which it didn't other than some jerk got tased, I feel it is his own fault for ignoring a simple command that my dog understands.

This. If he had been killed by the taser after behaving in this way he deserves a Darwin Award, not sympathy as far as I'm concerned. He completely brought this on himself.

[Gempress]

I'm siding with the ranger. He was walking away from an officer who was confronting him about breaking a law. That's resisting arrest or detention. It's a big red flag to law enforcement. It doesn't help his case that he gave her a false name. If I were a ranger, and somebody gave me a false name and then tried to walk away from me, my first thought would be that the guy is trying to hide something a lot bigger than a dog leash offense. At that point, I'd definitely tase him if that's what it took to stop him.

[Lilavati]

I don't think its a matter of siding. She should have followed him and called for back up (or called the regular cops if she had no back up), but not risked killing him with the taser.

As those of us who think tasing him have said, the guy was an @ss, and should not have been allowed to get away with being an @ss. Once he blew her off, it wasn't about the dogs any more, really, it was about a certain level of (gulp) respect for the law (I was going to say respect for authority, but that's not it . . its not respect for the ranger, its respect for what she represents, which is the law).

But considering that tasers are meant to be a substitute for a gun, and he had theoretically just informed her that he was especially vulnerable to one, you have to think, is this worth risking killing him over? Not just the offense, but think about her. How do you think she really would have felt if he'd died? Ok, so he's a jerk, but what if he had kids? Its not worth it to ANYONE to risk killing him. Not her, not the gov't, not even the law.

And frankly, his behave smells to me far more lke someone who doesn't want to pay a fine and thinks a "fake cop" can't do anything than someone actually up to real trouble.

I thought this was something of a toss up . . . as in, I understood why she did it, even if I thought it was not the best call and she should be disciplined for exhibiting poor judgment (because there is always a risk that you can kill someone with a taser). But the fact he claimed to have a heart condition (true or not) settles it. At that point you are risking having a corpse on your handles for an off-leash dog and an attitude.

Its not that I have sympathy for him (I don't), its that as a society we don't kill people for being a jerk with an off leash dog, and if further investigation was warranted (and it was), the solution is to get help, not do a toned down version of shoot-and-then-ask-questions.

[Bahamutt99]

I was riding with my husband once and he was pulled over. Instead of stopping, he backed up to the driveway and got out of the car to unlock the chain on our gate. The cop started yelling at him to get back in his car. I was freaked out, thinking that he was going to get shot or something. Some law enforcement officers are really edgy people, and I've learned to just do whatever the F they say. When I get stopped, I pull my keys out of the ignition and put them on the dash, and have my info out and ready so they don't get upset when I reach in my purse. I wont take any chances that they might think I'm trying to pull something. Its just not worth it. There are so many more worse things that can happen than being tazed.

Just my thoughts. I think the guy brought it on himself. Was it excessive? Well, yeah. But all he had to do was act right to avoid that. I suspect, too, that he didn't take her seriously because she was a woman.

[Bahamutt99]

Originally Posted by Greenmagick

I guess my question would be..what would have happened before tasers?

My guess is, someone would have gotten shot? Not necessarily shot in the back while walking away, but if it looked like he was going to get physical, yeah.

[Greenmagick]

Originally Posted by Bahamutt99

My guess is, someone would have gotten shot? Not necessarily shot in the back while walking away, but if it looked like he was going to get physical, yeah.

Really? For an unleashed dog???

No, they wouldve followed or called for back up....same as they shouldve done in this case.

Yes, the guy was being a jerk, doesnt mean he deserves to get tased.

And a bit OT...but relevant.

One thing that drives me nuts is how often police officers amp situations up instead of diffusing them.

[Bahamutt99]

People get shot for reaching in their purses and having metal objects that "look like they might be weapons." He wasn't tased for walking his dogs. He was tased for not obeying the officer's orders. In some cases, that could move on to resisting arrest, which can and does get people shot.

[yoko]

Originally Posted by Lilavati

As those of us who think tasing him have said, the guy was an @ss, and should not have been allowed to get away with being an @ss. Once he blew her off, it wasn't about the dogs any more, really, it was about a certain level of (gulp) respect for the law (I was going to say respect for authority, but that's not it . . its not respect for the ranger, its respect for what she represents, which is the law).

I don't think it was about respect either. It wasn't letting him get off for being an ass. He gave false info. She didn't know who he was or if he had a record. Then he ignored a simple instruction of stay. Was he wanted? Was he dangerous? She didn't know because he lied and then acted incredibly suspicious by not even staying to give simple info.

So yes he was an ass but it wasn't just a 'zomg he disrespected me' thing.

[Greenmagick]

Originally Posted by yoko

I don't think it was about respect either. It wasn't letting him get off for being an ass. He gave false info. She didn't know who he was or if he had a record. Then he ignored a simple instruction of stay. Was he wanted? Was he dangerous? She didn't know because he lied and then acted incredibly suspicious by not even staying to give simple info.

So yes he was an ass but it wasn't just a 'zomg he disrespected me' thing.

Unless she had a computer right there to run him, she wouldnt have known if he was a dangerous fugitive etc anyways.