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  #21  
Old 01-29-2012, 07:11 PM
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I meant the "mellow" GSD as a fluke. All the GSD I know fit the description pretty well.
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  #22  
Old 01-29-2012, 07:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrianneIsabel View Post
I meant the "mellow" GSD as a fluke. All the GSD I know fit the description pretty well.
I got what you were saying. I was more talking about the others posting about their GSDs.

I mean I know my dog lacks balance, but even the more balanced working bred dogs are pretty accurate to what I deal with, with Judge.

I think that the GSD breed as a whole lacks balance. I think the working lines lack Balanced drives a lot of the time....but *I* feel they are superior to the others out there.
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  #23  
Old 01-29-2012, 08:29 PM
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My two Amline GSDs were easier dogs in terms of in home activity level, especially the male. Although outside they could all be pretty wild. When Jora, the German line girl was young she had a hard time settling in the house but as she matured, she did develop a good "chill out" mode.

Jora was high energy, go-go-go to the point where she didn't notice pain or exhaustion when "working" though. "Working" was doing anything active - chasing a ball into the lake for example. She once wore her pads down so bad playing ball at the lake that she had a hard time walking for days afterward. But while at the lake, she showed no signs of discomfort at all. She's also have to be made to take breaks because she was exhausted to the point that her breathing was getting really noisy and she would not stop. She also broke her toe at a point, very badly - it had to be removed. I have no idea how or when she did it but it happened some time before I took her to training and she wasn't acting like anything was wrong. At the end of training, I was playing ball with her and after I had thrown it a few times, she jump back and yelped....then continued with bringing it back and wanting me to throw it again but on three legs. I looked at her foot and realized that her toenail on one side was pointing sideways and had dried blood around it. A vet visit showed that the first half of her toe was shattered and had to be removed. Crazy, crazy dog. But I really loved her craziness
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  #24  
Old 01-29-2012, 09:04 PM
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Mine were all a bit rough when they were young, but they all settle and act just fine in the house as they mature.
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  #25  
Old 01-29-2012, 09:09 PM
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I want this dog. http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/germ...html?id=617867


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  #26  
Old 01-29-2012, 09:51 PM
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Judge is related to that dog via Fado Karthago. Such nice dogs. Judge's breeder has some awesome dogs down from Tom and Querry Antverpa. That is what lines the Bitch had that I bred Judge too. I really am learning to love the Czech dogs. If I ever get another GSD I want a Czech/West German Working cross, heavier on the Czech side.

Judge is 4 and no settling in sight. His dad is almost 14 and still acts like Judge does!
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  #27  
Old 01-29-2012, 10:03 PM
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Skittledoo, I've had pretty close to the same experience as you. I don't get a lot of GSDs, and the ones that do come are generally for boarding. While I used to adore the breed from afar, having to care for the ones that come in has made me rethink that. Most of them are overly reactive and when they can't control a situation, they fire off those machine-gun barks that make my eardrums bleed. Or they flip their food/water bowls, shred blankets, mess their rooms, etc. I posted about this in the "breeds you would never own" thread. Now admittedly, as Aleron pointed out to me, I was not seeing them at their glowing best, as Shepherds are not meant to be "abandoned" by their owners to a boarding kennel.

I can certainly accept that the GSDs I'm seeing are probably not A.) the most high-quality, B.) the most well-trained, and C.) in a situation that would do them justice. But since these behaviors are also not atypical when out of the presence of the owner, that's enough for me to know that they aren't what I want. In a nutshell, if I were to drop dead right now, I would want my dogs to be sad for a bit, and then go off with the next person who gave them cookies. I would not want them to pine and scream and climb the walls because they couldn't be with me anymore. Morbid, but its how I feel.
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  #28  
Old 01-29-2012, 10:15 PM
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Shoot.. I'm not sure my pit bulls would even notice if I died, well as long as someone kept feeding them... lol they're very different from my malinois.
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  #29  
Old 01-29-2012, 11:04 PM
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Roman is related to that dog as well. I wonder how inter-related they all are.

Roman is not a mellow dog. He is prone to pacing, whining and he went through a tail-chasing period. I've refrained from giving him anything he wants (food, attention, outside, play, sometimes room to pace...) while he is "high" or in a state that I find grating. If he gets really irritating he gets locked up. I encourage him to lay down while gumming a toy (it always helps to have something in his mouth). He's gotten to do that on his own quite often now. With my parents he is a bit of a terror, but then they will give him treats when he harasses them, let him out the door when he's being obnoxious etc.

About destructiveness and noisiness, I was pretty hard-handed on him from the time I got him at 8 weeks... not saying that's right but I thought that's how it was done, and he has left my non-dog stuff untouched (save for my favorite bra, for some reason...). He throws screaming fits (eg if you throw his ball and hold him back), he whines, he grumbles and sighs if he wants you to know he's bored lol, he "talks" to his toys, and of course he barks at intruders/cars in the driveway but he isn't barky. He rarely barks at people who are off the property (but he'll listen to them), and he doesn't bark/scream/cry to have a door opened or to demand something.

It would seem that between lots of reinforcement for good behavior, "time-outs," and probably also a bit of aging (he's 4) he isn't hard to live with (well I don't find him so, my parents complain about him though).


He is from Czech lines, he was described as one of the highest drive puppies in the litter of 12. I believe two of those are certified narcotics k9's now. I have done little with him re:work/sport and so I don't really have a good objective opinion on what he's like but his pedigree nor early assessment don't indicate that he should be a mellow dog.

(BTW Red Chrome you should post in the "GSD's of Chaz" thread, I think it's a couple pages back in General Chat now )
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  #30  
Old 01-30-2012, 03:18 AM
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Originally Posted by release the hounds View Post
Mine were all a bit rough when they were young, but they all settle and act just fine in the house as they mature.
This is a more adequate description of the German Shepherd Dogs I am used to and prefer. I am honestly surprised that the common consensus is that GSDs are constantly physically pushy and unable to settle well, because that has not been my experience. Then again, my experience is not with the competition sport trained dogs, so perhaps that is why?

Quite frankly I did very minimal research when I purchased my first, only, and current German Shepherd (Trent) and I got a great dog out of it. Like Judge, he is primarily West German working lines with some Czech way back through his sire (dog in question is Cent An Sat, litter mate to Cordon). He does have DDR and the Karthago dogs through his dam, Crok vom Erlenbusch in the 4th generation through Yascha von Karthago (and I know many breeders would not touch Crok with a 10 generation pole LOL).

He is a very balanced dog. I had said the following about him a while back -

Quote:
well built, athletic, healthy, intelligent... strong minded and able bodied with moderate drives, unflappable nerves, solid temperament, and an excellent off switch. Protective without an ounce of fear, alert without being on edge, owner oriented without being clingy, affectionate without being sycophantic, and hard tempered without lacking handler awareness. A dog truly balanced inside and out.
No, he's not the type of dog you could take to Nationals, but that does not mean he would fail as a working dog, either. I think if someone did not know dogs and hung around the house, they would describe my dog as "mellow" because he settles so well. But anyone with a bit more experience would be able to see that this dog has drive, he is just not high strung or overflowing in energy. I have used "subtle, but with power" to describe him before and I do not know if that makes sense, but it's the best I can say about what I see.

He is just such a damned good dog all around, there is not a day that goes by that I do not feel thankful for him.

Is he pushy? Yes, if you let him push you around. But in his maturity he has never pushed me and is ready to go when I am ready and willing. He rarely plays with toys if I am not interacting with him, and almost never touches anything in the house, including his own toys. He is content to sleep in the same spot for days on end, but if we are outside he will go, go, go.

I considered Trent a vocal dog, but from these descriptions I am reading, I am beginning to doubt it. His breeder describes him as vocal, and I agreed with that assessment, but truth be told I cannot stand a consistently loud dog. I like having conversations with my dog, in that he barks and grumbles and I grumble and mutter back at him, but a dog that does not quiet upon request, a dog that is always vocalizing, all the time, in any setting? No, I do not want that. That would drive me completely insane.

Trent has a full sister from one of several repeat breedings that could, without a doubt, be described as an excellent sport dog. Same dam and sire, many similar traits in temperament, drive, and personality, but also many differences. She is a high octane, high drive, high energy, hard, tough, feisty little bitch. Our dogs' breeder has been working, training, and breeding these German Shepherds for about 40 years now, and is a DVG judge (his daughter being the youngest certified in North America, I believe), and both he and his daughter have said that the sister is a real hard bitch. Completely capable of making Nationals with the proper handler.

Ironically, she was purchased to be primarily a pet companion and I think the breeder wants to buy her back, but luckily her owner does a great job with her regardless of how much dog she is, and completely adores her. From what I have heard (and we have exchanged e-mails regularly about our dogs from since before her girl was born), she is excellent in the house, on her best behavior and not at all difficult to live with. Great nerves.

Both Trent and his sister were completely awful puppies. It's no lie when I say that I thought about sending him back, more than once. First dog, first German Shepherd, first puppy... I was overwhelmed. I used the crate, and I used it often. He was still nipping and mouthing at 6 months of age, and I still can't recall when he completely stopped. For me, though, it was more letting him mature and less intensive training that made him become the fantastic dog he is. I sure wish I could take the credit for it, but I know I can't.

Trent is good at the boarding kennel and does just fine with strangers grooming him, if they know what they are doing. A vet I hated tried to force Trent over on his back and he leapt up and showed teeth, but the groomers working at his breeder's boarding kennel bathed and washed and handled him without the slightest problem. Every time I drop him off he doesn't even glance back at me - I love the staff there because they know how to handle a dog.

That being said, I would never, ever leave him at a daycare or a dog park and he is not by any means a dog park type of dog. He is only allowed to be around other dogs under supervision and is definitely same sex reactive, especially towards intact males his size or equally reactive dogs. He is an only dog so I admit that I have not worked on this nearly as much as I should (and even could). He does still play well with our neighbor's male German Shepherd (though each time it takes some firm handling on my part) but I would worry about bringing in a second large, male dog to our home. I would not think it altogether impossible, just most likely undesirable.

I'm not trying to deny that overall, the breed has issues, because it does. I just don't think that the good German Shepherd Dog is so completely impossible to find.


Red Chrome, this is the thread Xandra is talking about
http://chazhound.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148888
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