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  #11  
Old 12-11-2011, 12:15 PM
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I agree, in that pic she does look too lean. It could be the angle, but she doesn't look muscular just very thin.

I think its silly to make dogs fat to give them 'substance' either they have it or they don't. Labs should not 'roll' along, they are supposed to be hunting dogs! I also agree that sighthound people often keep their dogs way too thin. Some are hard to keep weight on... but I got into an argument on another board because they were posting very thin dogs and saying that is what they SHOULD look like. Not that is what some end up looking like because they don't find food exciting. (Bounce does not find food exciting unless its handed to her in tiny pieces by a human)

ETA JRTs doen't seem to be too bad. But this summer after I shaved Dekka I got told by a few confo breeders that Dekka was way too thin. It doesn't take much coat to hide ribs etc. I thought she looked good, on the thin side of good, but good. No hip bones, or spine but a few rib ripples as she moved and lots of muscle definition.
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  #12  
Old 12-11-2011, 12:16 PM
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I do think she does look on the skinny side but it's not uncommon in young dogs. Keep feeding her and let her grow up before worrying too much about the ring.
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  #13  
Old 12-11-2011, 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Emily View Post

I mean, it doesn't really matter because I'm keeping her at working weight and that's that, but I just... I don't get it. And I'm not trying to offend anyone who shows their dogs - I think it's another fun thing to do with your dog, and I was looking forward to it, even with my fugly sport Corgi, LOL. But I just don't get it.

Her ribs are right beneath the skin, and yes, you can feel her spine and hip bones. But she's ultra muscular and already eats 3/4 lb of meat a day. I think she's very healthy looking, and I guess just find the whole "show weight" notion silly... I dunno. Thoughts?
Ziggy tends to look more like Keeva as far as body condition goes, although more muscled. Most of the agility people who are serious about doing performance with their corgis tend to keep them in similar condition as well. Which is to say, they are fairly thin. One of the long time performance Cardi people I know actually told me she would take a little more weight off of Ziggy.

I think you should show her at what you consider to be proper weight. There are judges who will favor that, even if it isn't the current trend and especially if her muscling is good. Also once she's show groomed, she'll look different anyway. After all behind every show dog is the right shampoos/conditions, the right after bath product and a force dryer


I am not sure exactly how it became trendy to show some breed fat. I've known people who had to put on/take off 20lbs with show Labs who also did performance (the trend with Labs seems to be to show them almost obese). Such things seem common in breeds that they like to be heavy boned, substantial looking dogs. Coat and extra weight can give the appearance of more substance than there actually is and make substantial dogs look even more substantial. And many of the breeds shown overweight are breeds that tend to be easy to put extra weight onto - Labs, Aussies, Corgis.

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Originally Posted by elegy View Post
I don't get it either. Yet another reason why I could never participate successfully in conformation.
It depends a lot on breed. Belgians at shows are far more likely to be thinner than the average person likes than fat. This isn't due to any sort of trend, it's because Belgians tend to be hard to put extra weight on. Young intact males especially tend to go through what at call a "boney thin" phase. So I don't tend to find young, thin dogs to be at all worrisome - it seems normal to me LOL
PyrSheps are expected to be shown in working condition as well, per their breed standard:

"Size - Rough-Faced: males: 15 to 18 inches at the withers, females: 15 to 18 inches. Smooth-Faced: males 15 to 21 inches at the withers, females 15 to 20 inches at the withers. Weight - An absolute minimum of weight is required -- just enough flesh to cover the bones; the ribs should be readily felt. Disqualification - Individuals under the minimum height, or exceeding the maximum height by more than inch. Proportion - In rough faced dogs the body is clearly long (from the point of shoulder to the ischium) in proportion to the height of the dog, whereas Smooth-Faced dogs appear much more square. Substance - The dog in good working condition is lightly boned and sinewy, correctly proportioned and well-balanced, and must never appear overdone." http://www.akc.org/breeds/pyrenean_shepherd/

Of course, expect for Mals Belgians are hairy enough that you can't tell condition without touching them. Most everyone at the training club thinks this young male Belgian owned by a friend is too thin once they touch him but from a picture you wouldn't be able to guess it. I think he's in excellent condition for his but he has almost no body fat on him, just muscle and bone:


Another friend's young Mal (probably Keeva's age) looks thin to most people, even though the black dog is probably equally boney (although better muscled). She is fairly typical of a Belgian her age though:


Then my mature male Belgian looks fat to most people, especially in his winter coat even. This was taken a day he was almost turned down for lure coursing for being "too heavy". Had to make the roll call person put her hands through his hair and when she did, she was very surprised! He is not as "boney thin" as the younger male (although he was at that age) but he's a lean, muscular dog with very little body fat under the hair:



So I do think one reason Keeva looks so thin to many is that she appears to have what GSD people would call a "close coat", at least right now. Ziggy does as well. A lot of Corgis have a very plushy, very thick almost nordic breed-ish coat and even though it isn't long, that can really change the way they look too.
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Last edited by Aleron; 12-11-2011 at 12:46 PM.
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  #14  
Old 12-11-2011, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Kat09Tails View Post
I do think she does look on the skinny side but it's not uncommon in young dogs.
^This. I think she looks like a lot of lanky, healthy young dogs I know.

Millie is at a pretty healthy weight right now, but I want her to lose a couple pounds. I like to keep my dogs on the very slim side. Underweight, no. Conditioned and trim, yes.

And kady, I've seen that, too. Greyhounds that have NO tuck-up at all and those that look like walking skeletons. I know what a healthy grey looks like, of course very trim, absolute minimal fat, and if it were any other breed, emaciated, but then there is the emaciated greyhound. Same with other sighthounds. It's awful.
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  #15  
Old 12-11-2011, 12:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Whisper View Post
And kady, I've seen that, too. Greyhounds that have NO tuck-up at all and those that look like walking skeletons. I know what a healthy grey looks like, of course very trim, absolute minimal fat, and if it were any other breed, emaciated, but then there is the emaciated greyhound. Same with other sighthounds. It's awful.
Yeah at the last AKC show I was at, many of the Sighthounds were just.. gross. My fiance came with me and he was like "WTF is wrong with those dogs??" I had to explain that they were supposed to be nice and lean, but that those dogs IMO were way overboard. Quite a few of the spectators were commenting as well.
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  #16  
Old 12-11-2011, 12:49 PM
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I am going to agree that Keeva looks a tad on the thin side to me. Not underweight, but I don't think it would hurt her to put a little bit more on.
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  #17  
Old 12-11-2011, 01:03 PM
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I think Keeva looks perfectly fine. I've always kept our dogs pretty lean though.

I think once she grows up she'll fill out perfectly and not seem so thin. Some puppies look like they're being starved while they grow lol.

I think some of the breeds have show weights that are pretty normal like Paps, Cavs, Chis, GSDs, Aussies.

Labs and Pugs are my biggest concerns. I know they're supposed to be blockly, not lanky but some of them are obese!! I don't think I could ever buy from a show lab breeder, it can't be healthy at all to keep them like that.
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  #18  
Old 12-11-2011, 01:21 PM
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So I read this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aleron View Post
After all behind every show dog is the right shampoos/conditions, the right after bath product and a force dryer
In the thread about show weight.

I'd love to elaborate! What grooming products do you use/like/hate? Especially interested in opinions from owners of fluffy dogs and those who show in conformation. And any recommendations for natural products?

I'm still shopping around for shampoos...right now I just buy the cheap stuff. I groom Sienna at home, but she always looked better when the groomer did it. (I guess that's why they're the professionals LOL.) I'm assuming the dryer makes a huge difference?
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  #19  
Old 12-11-2011, 01:23 PM
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Ack! Sorry that was supposed to start a new thread. I'll post it where it belongs, mods you can delete this one. Oops.
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  #20  
Old 12-11-2011, 02:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michiyo-Fir View Post
I think Keeva looks perfectly fine. I've always kept our dogs pretty lean though.
Yeah, me too.

And since Emily is at a family event I'm just gonna say that Keeva seriously not too thin. She does have widely sprung ribs that I think make her waist in some pictures look deceptively tiny. But her ribs feel like they should feel in an in shape dog and her hip bones do not jut out. She's also insanely muscular for a female puppy. She has such awesome thigh muscles.

If she is fed anymore (remember, she's on 3/4 pound of raw plus some veggies and so on plus a million treats for training) she just poops more.

On the topic though, my one and only conformation show I went to made me want to cry. And the sighthounds? Oh my god, it's bad enough when the ACD's barely had a tuck up but when a sighthound has no tuck up it makes me gag.
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