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Old 10-24-2011, 11:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kat09Tails View Post
Ok, I'll bite. Please show me the pedigree and pictures of a white GSD that has shown up in a litter of working line dogs sometime within the last decade. Thanks
Like Romy said, not likely to happen. Just from this thread alone, you should be able to see that obvious bias against whites. Knew of a breeder who produced a liver puppy a year or two ago, it was kept VERY quiet. Didn't know about it at all until I started doing a LOT of digging around, realized I actually KNEW the owner, and finally was able to link the dog back to the kennel. The owner was not allowed to even reveal the kennel name of the dog, and I know more often than not a breeder may actually insist the dog not be registered under his/her kennel name.

No, they aren't being killed regularly, but they aren't being flaunted, either. Working line breeders with white puppies popping up in their breedings just aren't going to be bragging about it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kat09Tails View Post

German showline is where things get fuzzy. Some do... some don't. Some german showlines find success in both fields. Personally if I was hedging my bets for a working dog I wouldn't be looking at a dog who had showtitles in their pedigree.

What I would be looking for is stuff like IPO, Sch titles along with a few dogs with things like Border patrol, narc detection, PP, patrol, or military. Those dogs believe it or not while not common are available to the public and if you've never experienced a GSD of sound working temperament I highly suggest it. You'll never look at another working dog the same way.
That's funny, because most working bred German Shepherds have many dogs in the pedigree with show ratings. It's actually required that your dog's conformation is assessed and a passing show rating awarded if you're wanting to breed and have the puppies SV registered. Show ratings and titles don't necessarily equate to show specified breeding.

I haven't seen many German show lines that impress me, either. But I've known a few. Amazing dogs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kat09Tails View Post
What I would be looking for is stuff like IPO, Sch titles along with a few dogs with things like Border patrol, narc detection, PP, patrol, or military. Those dogs believe it or not while not common are available to the public and if you've never experienced a GSD of sound working temperament I highly suggest it. You'll never look at another working dog the same way.
My dog is west German lines, tracing back to Crok, Lord, and Cordon's littermate. Bred by a working dog judge with a daughter who's the youngest certified in North America. Given plenty of lectures and spoken at seminars and worked with K-9 units to their certification.

I know a little bit about working dogs, got a lovely working bred dog myself. He is a working bred dog through and through - protective, driven, intense, demands respect with a great presence, but an incredible companion. Aloof and intelligent, defensive when need be with an excellent off switch. Littermate active in SAR, multiple full siblings in Schutzhund, a SCHH3 VPG3 sire, SCHH1 KKL1 dam, and several dogs related to his sire and dam active police dogs.

But thanks for the recommendation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aleron View Post
White GSDs are just GSDs according to AKC registration. There is a huge divide in the breed between people who want them to be an accepted color of the GSD and people who want to split them into a separate breed. A lot of crossing to American Showlines went on with wGSDs for awhile because the breeders involved wanted the more show type dog. Dare I say that crossing to American Showlines is not a great way to enhance drive and solid nerves consistently in the breed. That is the direction the majority of wGSD breeders seem to want to go in though. A lot of other ones are breeding huge white GSDs for pets. If there is a population of working wGSDs, it is a small one. I have seen one webpage of a breeder in Europe who does SchH with his whites. Compared to hundreds upon hundreds who do SchH with their standard colored GSDs.

The Hoofprint dogs don't do SchH or HGH herding and that is the standard that working GSDs are judged against. Just because there's a few dogs on a police force doesn't mean a lot either. Many police forces take whatever dogs are donated to them and make do. It isn't right or good but that is the way it works.

I don't say this to try to knock wGSDs at all. I don't think there is anything wrong with wGSDs, they are what they are. The major market for them has been as pets for so long that it has effected the type of dog that is generally produced. Now many breeders of them are very show oriented. It doesn't make them bad dogs and if the OP is looking for a good pet, there are plenty of wGSD breeders she could go to. Which is why I asked what they were interested in.
Quote:
Originally Posted by release the hounds View Post
Basicallly I see it like this. A good dog can come from anywhere and be any color. GSD's have been bred to a standard that has developed a working dog known world wide for it's temperment, courage, nerve, strength and trainability. Breeders that still adhere to this standard, still produce the medium sized working dog that built this reputation.

Then you have other breeders that use a standard i theory, but their dogs haven't passed a fairly administered test in generations, and they focus on other things like coat color or how they trot.

Then you have other breeders that follow no standard at all, or breed for out of standard stuff, and you're hard pressed to find quality dogs in those litters with any regularity. Sure some pop up now and again, but there's no consistency, other than substandard dogs.

GSD's have been a breed for a little over 100 years and almost from the inception of the stud books and breed standard, White has been against the standard all over the world. The US allowed it for showing for a while, but everywhere else those breeding for white, were breeding for color and out of standard dogs.

in 10 years you can have huge shifts when you breed away from a standard, you can imagine what would happenn in 100 years.

Nobody is culling a lot of dogs today, they're worth too much money. white dogs aren't being born the world over and being killed without a word to hide a secret.

There's a few dogs i've seen linked that are white and working, but a lot have been dogs that have been dead for years. A handful of dogs in the world doesn't really scream of equal ability to me. Not when we had more dogs titled this past summer than i've seen white dogs titled on the internet in a decade.
My God, people with sense

+1 Aleron and release the hounds. Always good to read your posts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdrianneIsabel View Post
Why haven't the whites continued to show in schutzhund trials or mondio or the K-9 trials?

Are they not ideal for protection sport such as the colored dogs? I am genuinely curious, there is nothing wrong with it, why is that a divide between white and color coated GSD?

Also I am sure they compete but I don't see them in any of the sports I frequent, I just have trouble considering them sporting dogs when I don't see them actively sporting (nor in the reports).
Well, no, but I don't see German Shepherds as sporting dogs either. I define success, in this context, as a breeder who still can breed for the total dog and participate/compete in a certain venue, and title their dogs at higher levels of competition.

I never stated that all white German Shepherds were fabulous working and sporting dogs. Just that a dog isn't necessarily going to be total **** just because of coat color, which seems to be the general attitude taken up by a couple of people here (not directing this at you, this is for everyone in general ).
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