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  #21  
Old 01-11-2011, 10:13 PM
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Romy Romy is offline
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Originally Posted by Saeleofu View Post
Okay, I take it back. This dog shouldn't be in school, or anywhere else. This is an UNALTERED BITCH and is now in heat. Awesome








There are no words. What reputable organization would place an unaltered bitch as a service dog with a CHILD!?!

*MEGAFACEPALM*

This actually kinda makes me want to cry. Strider is still intact. I was worried about whether he'd be able to work while Kaia is in season, and ready to swoop in and have his huevos amputated if it affected his ability to work, because she is staying intact.

She's two days into standing heat as of today. He has been a PERFECT ANGEL. No whining, no fussing, no marking, no not listening. Honestly, he's been much more attentive and obedient, in that he jumps to obey commands faster than usual. He's done his alerts perfectly, even with her whining and flagging in the next room. Moxie suggested that maybe he thinks if he listens super well, I'll let him have her. When I expressed my worries to the trainer that mentored us, she laughed and said that if we keep him intact we'll only be working with half his brain at any given time and so far that had been plenty. When he's around a girl in season, only a quarter, but that he was a smart enough dog a quarter would be plenty. So far she is right.

It probably helped that we dragged him down to Moxie's place and put him in a downstay while having the leashed collie bitches jump over him while they were in heat.
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  #22  
Old 01-11-2011, 10:20 PM
Saeleofu Saeleofu is offline
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I know someone who had an intact male as an SD and had two unaltered bitches (not SDs) at the same time. Dog was perfect.

I was a little worried about Logan, but I do bring home "dog in heat" smells all the time (we do a lot of AI stuff at work) and so far, he doesn't care. He's also been in the kennel with a dog in heat in the next run over (solid walls between them) and wasn't all too interested. So I don't think it'll be a big issue. I'm sure once I move we can test him, too
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  #23  
Old 01-11-2011, 10:51 PM
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lizzybeth727 lizzybeth727 is offline
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Originally Posted by Romy View Post
There are no words. What reputable organization would place an unaltered bitch as a service dog with a CHILD!?!

*MEGAFACEPALM*
Oh yeah, AND, Assistance Dogs International, the accreditating organization that certifies assistance dog training organizations, has as one of its guidelines that organizations cannot place intact dogs as working dogs. Plus, you know, there's the whole COMMON SENSE thing that says you shouldn't place them with CHILDREN (and then fight for that child's rights to have the dog in SCHOOL with him without an adult handler), but whatever.
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  #24  
Old 01-11-2011, 10:54 PM
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Oh yeah, AND, Assistance Dogs International, the accreditating organization that certifies assistance dog training organizations, has as one of its guidelines that organizations cannot place intact dogs as working dogs. Plus, you know, there's the whole COMMON SENSE thing that says you shouldn't place them with CHILDREN (and then fight for that child's rights to have the dog in SCHOOL with him without an adult handler), but whatever.
Really? I wonder if they'll decide to yank that org's accreditation now.
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  #25  
Old 01-11-2011, 11:02 PM
Saeleofu Saeleofu is offline
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Really? I wonder if they'll decide to yank that org's accreditation now.
I doubt it. ADI's not really good at enforcing their rules.
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  #26  
Old 01-11-2011, 11:13 PM
stardogs stardogs is offline
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I did some sleuthing too and the dog's breeder has several complaints about dogs with congenital heart and other chronic conditions - so much for the claim that she's from valuable lines...Even more reason for her to be spayed imo.
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  #27  
Old 01-12-2011, 12:39 AM
motherofmany motherofmany is offline
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When the little guy walks his bitch in heat past the wrong dog, what then?

In theory I love the idea of special needs kids having SDs. After watching a PBS special on it (probably the same one a poster mentioned earlier) I became a little more..um...skeptical of the S part although the comfort aspect still seems to have value. IMO. YMMV.
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  #28  
Old 01-12-2011, 12:52 AM
Saeleofu Saeleofu is offline
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although the comfort aspect still seems to have value.
Comfort alone does not make an SD and SD. I'm all for kids having pets or skilled companion dogs, disability or not. But for the most part, not SDs. I thought this kid and this dog was different. But no.

And the "trainer" of this dog has come to the SD forum I'm on looking for trouble
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  #29  
Old 01-12-2011, 12:57 AM
motherofmany motherofmany is offline
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Originally Posted by Saeleofu View Post
Comfort alone does not make an SD and SD. I'm all for kids having pets or skilled companion dogs, disability or not. But for the most part, not SDs. I thought this kid and this dog was different. But no.

And the "trainer" of this dog has come to the SD forum I'm on looking for trouble
Oh I get that. Completely agree too. But I think the term SD has been loosely used for a while now which in the long run is going to cause major problems for true, serious, working SD's.

Which I don't think this dog is. (gonna get railed for this comment I suspect)
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  #30  
Old 01-12-2011, 02:32 AM
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Originally Posted by motherofmany View Post
Oh I get that. Completely agree too. But I think the term SD has been loosely used for a while now which in the long run is going to cause major problems for true, serious, working SD's.

Which I don't think this dog is. (gonna get railed for this comment I suspect)
You won't get railed. A service dog is only legally a service dog if it performs trained tasks to mitigate its handler's disability. It's recommended you train at least 3 tasks in case the validity of your dog's working status is ever challenged in court.

There are too many cases of people claiming to have service dogs with them when in truth they are just pets, or Emotional Support Animals (basically there for comfort). I believe ESAs have housing rights, at least in section 8 housing (correct me if I'm wrong someone), but they do not have access rights to public places like service dogs do.

Alerting is not considered a task BTW. You can't train it. It's a behavior the dog either does or doesn't do on its own. And no dogs are 100% reliable at alerting. They're valuable because you can't train it, but they also need to be trained other mitigating tasks to be legally considered a service dog along with public access behavior.

ETA: I suspect this dog probably does fit the legal definition of service dog. At the very least, the card swiping task is a legitimate task. Though, I'm pretty disturbed that she didn't do it during the TV interview.

ETAETA: The fines are pretty stiff for people with imposter SDs, if they get caught. The hard part is catching them. I think it's something like a $20,000 fine?
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