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  #11  
Old 01-17-2005, 06:36 PM
Tanner Tanner is offline
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Wow does this thread bring back some not too distant memories!! Up until about a month ago, we had major problems with our puppy Tanner and his biting. We had taken him to kanine kindergarten and they told us basically everything that was mentioned already and nothing seemed to work. We found that grabbing his mouth or bottom jaw really made him upset and that if we turned and walked away he would just follow biting at our heels. Finally one day at work, I was complaining about the bites and showing my bruises and a lady said she had just the thing. She said to get an old can with a lid, put some pennies in it, and everytime he latched on to our hands, clothing etc, to shake the can vigorously! Well, we went home and tried it out, and it was amazing! Basically all it is, is a loud noise that will startle the pup and make him stop what he's doing and look. Tanner has did a complete 360, now all you have to say when he starts to get a little mouthy is say "do you want the can??" and he will stop right away. Give it a try, it was a lifesaver for us...Also I know with Tanner a big part of his biting was he was loosing his baby teeth left and right and now he's got all his permanent teeth. Once this happens you'll see a big difference too!
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  #12  
Old 01-18-2005, 08:42 PM
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dogsrmylife86 dogsrmylife86 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renee750il
Be aware that if you try the 'claw biting' and he nips you, you've lost and it's back to square one - farther back, actually, because your unconscious reaction will be to jerk your hand out of harms' way and you've lost complete control at that point. If you try any of these techniques you've got to be willing to follow through just like a dog would follow through. You just don't do this unless you are supremely confident. I would also never, ever get down on all fours with my dogs. They understand the difference in standing on two legs and on four, and there is already an inborn instinct for 99% of the canine world to defer to mankind - on two legs.

Another thing to think about is that small dogs don't always react the same way big ones do. Small dogs are more likely to just learn to fear you from such aggressive techniques.
all that really isn't true, dogs may understand the difference between two legs and four, but, your dog must truly respect you, you do this after you've established dominance, you haven't established true dominanace over your dog if he reacts crazily when you kneel down on one knee or all fours.
also not true about how smaller dogs react to what you refer to as agressive, they are most ertainly not, how in the world do you think it was established in the wild? the point is not to make him afraid, never do any sort of training or dominance training sharp and agressively, it does promote fear.

i've personally seen these tactics used on a chihuahua! if he nips you, it simply is him trying to regain is dominance. eventually the dog will realize, he may nip you but, you truly are dominant by not letting go of him in this submissive position. the trick is to gently pin his head in a position he cannot bite your hand easily, the whole point, it renders him helpless, establishing the dominance. therefore, you won't jerk your hand away and if he bites you, he bites you, he must understand it's a no-no, you won't be back at square one if he nips you, only if he does and you retreat fully.

another thing, you cannot, absolutly establish true dominance with your dog if your are timid and fearful of him, it gives him the leash, you must always, always be truly confident. if you happen to be bitten, it might happen, you cannot give up, your dog really needs work if he does bite hard and draw blood. all these tactics will help.

i've even tried this "claw biting" technique on a Japanese Chin, which are tiny dogs, this particular dog didn't like people coming into a friend coming into his "master's" bedroom, he would bark and growl, i used the claw biting technique, he tried bite and growled hard but, eventually he recognized me as dominant and let me walk in and out of the room and pet him unmolested.

hope this helps,
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Ginger-3 (lab/GS) fourth place novice at state, won twice at county level and one second at county level. knows around 32 tricks. Patches-12 (b. collie/aussie) farm dog. knows one or two tricks.

"A dog will never forget the crumb thoust gavest him, though thou mayst afterwards throw a hundred stones at his head." -Sa'Di-

"If a dog will not come to you after he has looked you in the face, you should go home and examine your conscience." -Woodrow Wilson-

"My dog is half pit bull , half poodle. Not much of a watchdog, but a vicious gossip." -Craig Shoemaker-
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  #13  
Old 01-18-2005, 10:52 PM
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Renee750il Renee750il is offline
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Regardless, these aren't tactics for most people to use. Ever. If you've had success this way, then you have had success, but the vast majority of people will not and are very likely to end up in a worse situation than they started. Or be dangerously bitten.

And there are definitely breeds that you never, ever treat this way regardless of how confident you are unless you are the owner.
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  #14  
Old 01-18-2005, 11:49 PM
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Doberluv Doberluv is offline
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This is a puppy. He's not trying to be dominant. Most dogs are not dominant anyway. Being harsh will undermine your pup's trust in you. He just has to learn not to play that way. I think and have found over the years with many dogs that ending all playtime when he's getting out of hand is the best remedy. He wants to play with you in the worst way. When he bites, get up and walk away and ignore him. When he stops, give him a toy that feels good on his teething teeth and praise. Be careful not to make it look like you're praising him for the biting. Be consistant and don't react when he bites. Sometimes any attention, good or bad is a payoff for him. Just take away what he likes....remove the payoff. He'll grow up and grow out of it if you're consistant.
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  #15  
Old 01-19-2005, 08:58 AM
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Renee750il Renee750il is offline
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That's the perfect advice, Doberluv.
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In a controversy the instant we feel anger we have already ceased striving for the truth, and have begun striving for ourselves. ~Buddha

Stupid is the most notoriously incurable and contagious disease known to mankind. If you find yourself in close proximity to someone infected with stupid, walk away as soon as said infection is noted.


There are few things more nauseating than pure obedience. ~ Kvothe

***8206;"silence is the language of god, all else is poor translation."
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Be a god. Know when to shut up.


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  #16  
Old 01-19-2005, 09:00 PM
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dogsrmylife86 dogsrmylife86 is offline
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i have learned ALL of these tactics from world-known trainers, how do you think pups were scolded by their older leaders for this behavior? dogs have strong natural instincts as much as people fight this fact, they treat their dogs like humans. your dog will bond better when you communicate in his language.
allison
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Ginger-3 (lab/GS) fourth place novice at state, won twice at county level and one second at county level. knows around 32 tricks. Patches-12 (b. collie/aussie) farm dog. knows one or two tricks.

"A dog will never forget the crumb thoust gavest him, though thou mayst afterwards throw a hundred stones at his head." -Sa'Di-

"If a dog will not come to you after he has looked you in the face, you should go home and examine your conscience." -Woodrow Wilson-

"My dog is half pit bull , half poodle. Not much of a watchdog, but a vicious gossip." -Craig Shoemaker-
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  #17  
Old 01-20-2005, 03:30 AM
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Doberluv Doberluv is offline
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Quote:
how do you think pups were scolded by their older leaders for this behavior? dogs have strong natural instincts as much as people fight this fact, they treat their dogs like humans. your dog will bond better when you communicate in his language.
The trouble with this is that we are not dogs. We cannot communicate the way they do. They know and we know that we are not dogs. In wolf studies, they determined that what many so called world class trainers who train by jerking, scruffing etc are missing something. Wolves or wild dogs do not suddenly jerk, grab, scruff, bite, growl at another. There are some tiny nuances, barely perceptable to most people and certainly not your average pet owner. There are some small body language signs, looks, glares, positions that preceed these harsher acts, when these acts do take place, which is not very frequent.

Operant and classical conditioning has been understood and proven to be most effective since the day of B.F. Skinner, Pavlov and Lorenz and before them. This is what is truly natural for all living organisms with a brain. This is how everyone learns. It can, if done correctly, supercede any of this attempt for humans to act like dogs.

That is not to say that one should not be assertive, set rules, enforce rules, be consistant. It's how one goes about it that is important. Training in and of itself, if pleasant is what promotes respect for the owner. Promoting trust builds respect. A fearful dog is an untrusting dog.

Ensuring a payoff for good behavior will increase the liklihood of repeating that behavior. That is a law of animal behavioral science. And not providing anything good decreases the liklihood of a behavior being repeated. The trouble with most trainers and owners is that they don't see or notice that they are inadvertantly rewarding many behaviors that they don't want. It's something that comes with learning and experience.
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  #18  
Old 01-20-2005, 12:11 PM
i'm_sofa_king i'm_sofa_king is offline
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hold his head down when he bites............that might work. its amazing to me to watch my puppy and my 5 year old cat "play". the cat does what is said to be done in wolf packs. he will give the puppy looks, galres, hisses, moews, before he takes action. and when he does, he hold him down on his back and stands over him with his mouth open, sometimes he'll bite him. then he'll let him up. i dont think my puppy gets it though cause he goes right back for more, like he didnt learn his leason or maybe he's just really playful.......either way, i've gotta figure out something to get him to stop biting. i tried most of the things on page one, maybe i'm just impatient alittle. i'll try some more.
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  #19  
Old 01-22-2005, 04:48 PM
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smkie smkie is offline
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I find that the pups I worked with hate being ignored for 10 minutes more than anything, no eye contact, after no (a shame on you reaction) i would ignore them completely. AFter 10 minutes or so we would resume as if nothing had happened unless the behavior repeated, and then I would no and ignore again. Biting and chewing is normal for pups in the litter, and now solo they try to replace the litter mates with you.You aren't the litter mate though, your the leader. I do not like squeezing a muzzle, especially in a bird dog. Our pups were lucky to have a DAddy dog in the picture. Old Binny would absolutely roar at a pup and sometimes I heard a yike to go with it. He was firm about how hard they could bite, and he never hurt a soul. The neighbor woman only said one good thing about me or my dogs...she was as mean a woman as she could be, but she did like the way the male dog played so gently with the puppies. The only sentence she spoke to me in 12 years. SHe didn't approve of single woman with children so I was a black sheep in her book. Be firm and consistant it won't last long. Replace what you don't want chewed on with what is ok. Putting up anything that could be dangerous if it is chewed up or swallowed. Especially foam products.that could expand if swallowed or plastics that could turn brittle.. Those puppy teeth are sharp aren't they?
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