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Old 06-14-2010, 10:00 PM
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ACooper ACooper is offline
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I read this thread a little bit ago, was pretty appalled..........erm, no, appalled isn't quite the right word. I was down right OUTRAGED at his behavior towards Becca. I had to step off and have time to think it over.

I have since calmed down, and honestly at this moment, I CAN see the comic value in his posts. We all know he goes on and on about the 'perfect way' to feed all dogs.........yet have any of you seen him post one picture of what the effects of that 'perfect diet' yields? One photo of his dogs with wonderful coats, muscle tone, and in top physical shape from this perfect way to feed? He spouts a lot, but he has never backed it up.

I'd wager it's about the same situation with his training advice.

He lets his alligator mouth write checks his mickey mouse ass can't cash I find that incredibly funny!
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Old 06-14-2010, 11:14 PM
MPP MPP is offline
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We had a discussion just a little while ago about people who own pit bulls but simply will not embrace the history and background of the breed. Many pit bulls are dog aggressive. Good owners accept this as part of the breed and are prepared to deal with it.

Which is exactly what Becca is trying to do. She's asking, "Should I be concerned about this? How might I deal with it to prevent future problems?" Isn't this how an intelligent, responsible owner ought to behave?
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Old 06-14-2010, 11:22 PM
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Renee750il Renee750il is offline
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Originally Posted by ACooper View Post
He lets his alligator mouth write checks his mickey mouse ass can't cash I find that incredibly funny!
I have to wonder how an alligator appropriate diet affects a mickey mouse intestinal tract . . .
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Old 06-14-2010, 11:23 PM
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corgipower corgipower is offline
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I've dealt with resource guarding. I've dealt with DA. I've allowed dogs to correct each other, as long as I trust them to not injure each other or fight.

I have no advice here, because I've dealt with this in corgis, GSDs, and malis. I haven't dealt with it in pit bulls and I don't know what's best in a breed with their potential for hard-wired DA.
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Old 06-14-2010, 11:32 PM
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lizzybeth727 lizzybeth727 is offline
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Originally Posted by RawFedDogs View Post
I am beginning to wonder if you are dog savy enough to own two dogs of this breed. You seem to be afraid of them and lack the knowledge and confidence to properly manage them. You have been given some good advice from several people but you are reluctant to follow it. Some APBT's are not good beginner dogs. Maybe Golden Retrievers would be a better breed for you.

Incidently, some of the worst resource guarding I've seen was from a golden retriever.

15 years of experience in animal training? I actually find that doubtful. In 15 years you MUST be better at communicating with other animal people than this.

I must say, one of the best pieces of advice on this thread came from someone who's not much more than 15 years old:

Originally Posted by Maxy24 View Post
I would let Luke tell her to leave him alone like he is but if she doesn't listen after a few snarls I'd body block her away with some command (go away, that's enough, whatever you want to say) so that she does not push him to the point where he feels the need to escalate. Hopefully in the future she'll respond to the command alone and you won't need to get up. But do let him tell her first and see if she responds, she does need to learn to talk dog and respond to what they tell her but at the same time you don't want Luke to start getting really frustrated and escalate his behavior.
As for my advice, OP, I'd be extra cautious while Luke is still sick. I've seen dogs without even symptoms of kennel cough (coughing, runny nose, etc.) act VERY differently than they do when they're healthy. It might be a good idea to do extra management while he's getting over his illness, then relax the management just a bit when he feels better and start working on the issue head-on.
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Old 06-14-2010, 11:33 PM
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I have no advice to give you other than some encouragement. If anyone can make it work, Becca, it is you.
When things don't go your way, stop and think, "Problem, or inconvenience?" - with apologies to Robert Fulghum
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Old 06-14-2010, 11:47 PM
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Bailey08 Bailey08 is offline
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Originally Posted by eddieq View Post
I have no advice to give you other than some encouragement. If anyone can make it work, Becca, it is you.
I second this. I actually teared up a little when I read his post "attacking" you, and your response -- so I truly, truly hope that you can just take his advice for {what we ALL know it} is, and laugh it off.
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Old 06-15-2010, 03:04 AM
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ihartgonzo ihartgonzo is offline
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Wow, RFD... I am usually understanding of your posts, but you really crossed a line there. I don't know if you fully know or understand Becca and her experience with dogs, but you have absolutely no business judging her ability to own dogs of this breed. How many Pitties have you had the pleasure of owning, oh all knowing one? Your experience with DA? Real DA, not just reactivity or poor manners?

I have to disagree with RFD's advice of letting dogs do what they please. IMO, no humans don't necessarily speak dog or vice versa, but that doesn't mean you just give them free reign. These dogs are puppies... rescue puppies... of unknown breeding/upbringing... and whose personalities are still developing. Establishing good boundaries and making sure that neither puppy has a need to get stressed or protective is super important! Fozzie was naturally super guardy and protective when I adopted him as a puppy. Like I've never seen before. I knew that Gonzo could be easily picked on in that regard, and I knew I didn't want them to resent each other or get stressed with chews or food. So, instead of just letting them create their own "pecking order", I made it clear that I provide their food and that what I give them is theirs... they don't need to try to steal the other's food, and they don't need to worry about their's being stolen. When I fed them, I started with their bowls on opposite sides of the room and stood in the middle. Over time, the bowls got closer. Same as when I fed them raw in the yard. Or when I gave them chewies. If they tried to steal the other's chewy, I was there to bodyblock them and redirect them to their own. I fed them treats and food by hand within inches of each other. I didn't just keep them seperate, and I made it clear that neither of them messes with another dog's food. Now, they can eat out of the same bowl and if I give them each a bully stick, they will eat only their own bully stick even if the other leaves theirs alone. It just becomes the only way they know, and it's stress free! Teaching a solid "leave it" and recall helps everything a lot. My dogs won't even touch the chewies or food laying around at friend's houses; they just learn that if it isn't handed to them, it isn't theirs, don't worry about it.

Becca... NO ONE is a better Pittie owner than you! NO ONE is more understanding or aware or responsible than you or loves this breed more than you, and those puppies are beyond lucky to have found you.

<3 Erica, Gonzo & Fozzie
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Old 06-15-2010, 07:00 AM
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and keep in mind, too, becca that what you're seeing is, first and foremost, communication.

i do "allow" my dogs to guard stuff from one another as long as it doesn't go further than growling. the dynamics between my dogs and me are such that i'm comfortable with that. steve is very vocal and growls a lot at the other dogs when he has stuff. they are pretty good about being respectful of him, and he of them when they have stuff and warn him off. i don't ever leave them alone, and i know them well enough by now to be able to tell when there may be bigger trouble brewing.

you're observant and smart, and i have no doubt you'll be fine.
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Old 06-15-2010, 09:21 AM
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Okay, I have about three things that mostly have already been said, but I'm going to say them again, because they're all true and I'm in a pissy mood to begin with and I'm going to confront someone who deserves it instead of someone who accidentally looks at me the wrong way.

1. Don't friggin talk to the Becca like that. Don't talk to anyone on this forum on like that, especially if you have no idea what you're talking about. You probably shouldn't talk to people like that in real life (which I doubt you do), or you're going to get socked in the face eventually.

2. Where in the hell, in any post, on any website, anywhere in the history of the world would you get the impression Becca is "afraid pit bulls?" Oh, I see, you're confusing loving and respecting and most important of all, knowing and understanding the breed and not being a moron who causes problems for pit bulls and the people who love them, with being afraid of them.

On what FRIGGIN planet do you think you have a right to tell a woman you don't know a single thing about she couldn't control her past dog? Becca controlled and loved and trained Ella very, very, very well, better than probably 95% of the average popular and about 50% of chazzers ever could or would. Most families would give Ella up, or even put her down, for her D/A. At the very least, keep her locked up in the house. Becca spent a ton of time, money, and energy training Ella to behave in public when she saw other dogs and made a ton of progress on her.

Some people don't pretend to know everything about everything. And usually, those people are much more knowledgeable than the hardheaded people who go around boasting about their experience and how much they know, because they have this amazing ability to listen and learn from other people.

2. You say you have 15 years experience training dogs...WHERE? Obviously not very many of them were pit bulls or any kind of terriers. Unless you work at a pet store or give petco puppy kindergarten, you should know that about 50% of pit bulls are "over-the-top-dog-aggressive" and pit bulls, particularly YOUNG pit bulls, can go from 1-100 in under 10 seconds.

It's people like you who want to pretend pit bulls are friggin beagles or great danes or something who cause BSL, because you're the people who bring your 2 year old pittie to a dog park and la la la it's playing with a yorkie or ANY other dog, and suddenly that dog hits a high enough pitch or they move at just the right speed and the pitties brain clicks to "PREY. MUST KILL." and no more yorkie. And not only is there no more yorkie, there's a whole park full of people who know nothing about pit bulls and saw a horrible example of pit bull ownership and ALL vote for BSL and are terrified of pit bulls.

Have you ever worked with a high-drive hunting breed? I don't mean labs. I mean a dog that was bred to go in and kill another animal, sometimes much larger than itsself, or die trying.

You have experience with great danes fighting? Well let's all bow down to you because you know so much more than us because you've witness big, gentle, low-drive dogs get into a scrap. Have you ever seen terriers fight? Two 14 lb jack russells are harder to break up than two great danes, and much less than breaking up a pittie fight.

4. I hope to God you don't get a pit bull before you get off your high horse and take the time to learn something about them. And you know what (and I'm breaking the first Chaz rule and I don't even care)? I don't hope you get off your high horse, I hope you fall off and land in the mud and feel stupid, just like you try to make everyone else feel.

Oh, and head to your local library and pick up these books:

"My favorite color is green, green like newly cut grass. When it comes to green with envy, though, you can stick it up your @ss!" ~ Grammy
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