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  #11  
Old 10-01-2005, 12:38 AM
g00ber g00ber is offline
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sylvia liebrechts has said it all!!

It is not fair to throw all breeders in the same basket. You may seem to think that everyone could just stop breeding and it would be "problem solved". Unfortunately, life just isn't that black and white. Breeders like Sylvia should be encouraged not put down for what they do, as from what I have read she is one of the breeders out there that is doing the right thing. If all these great breeders stopped what they were doing it would not help fix the problem but in fact make it worse. BYBers and Puppy Farmers would see a gap in the market and start producing more pups with no concern for where these pups would end up. Even if no one intended to breed either purebred or crossbred pups, there will still be those that are to irresponsible to keep their females in season either locked up or have them desexed... hence there will still be puppies.

Most responsible breeder usually make no money (and more often than not) lose money by breeding dogs, it is certainly not the money making machine that some people believe it is.

I am not saying that you don't have a right to your opinion Animalbiz, but breeders are not the only reason that dogs end up in shelters... irresponsible owners are just as much to blame. I have only been on this forum for one day and this not the first post that I have read by you that has put down breeders, yet I have not seen you encouraging people to be responsible pet owners. I believe that if more people were responsible pet owners, and to put some thought into buying a dog before they took it home this would be far more effective when it comes to keeping dogs out of shelters than stopping responsible breeders ever would be. I understand that the topic of breeding may get your "hackles up" Animalbiz but from what I have seen here so far, so is the fact that you are telling responsible breeders that they shouldn't be breeding.
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  #12  
Old 10-01-2005, 01:25 AM
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We know there are good breeders. But they are few and very far between. No one is placing them all in the same basket. Most of us own at least one purebred (look in the siggys), so of course we don't look down on ALL breeders. We just know you have to luck up on a good breeder with worthy dogs. Some of us have been duped by BYB.

Animal Biz, is there nothing you are happy with on this forum? The Breeding Ground is just a little play on words. If you research our posts, you will find 99.9999% of us don't agree with BYB. So, in taking offense to the name of one of the forums, you are obviously not taking the time to get to know us very well before posting yet another 'rant' against us and our forum.
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  #13  
Old 10-01-2005, 04:45 AM
g00ber g00ber is offline
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Sorry Pro47, I think my post must have come across wrong. I didn't mean for it to sund like I thought that everyone on the forum was lumping every breeder in the same basket. I just felt that animalbiz was lumping all breeder in the same basket not only by what was said in this thread but also in others... sorry if I gave you the wrong idea. The post was directed at Animalbiz, not the forum members as a whole.
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  #14  
Old 10-01-2005, 11:07 AM
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g00ber,
I knew who you were talking to hun. I was just posting it to anyone new who does not really know what most of us here at Chaz feel.
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  #15  
Old 10-01-2005, 01:00 PM
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The Breeding Ground is an off shoot from Dog Breeds as a lot of people were posting breeding questions ... which made it very complicated. It's where people can learn...not to promote breeding.
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  #16  
Old 10-02-2005, 01:25 AM
amymarley amymarley is offline
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To be quite honest, I am most likely not talking to the "people" I want to reach. They are most likely not on this forum, and therefore are prob. unreachable anyway...

The dog owners, breeders, and dog lovers here are here for a reason. That's why they post.

I do know some dog breeders that I do respect....but I still hate the fact that there are so many dogs in shelters that need a loving home and when there is NO need for shelters, then yes breed. Some people just like certain breeds... that's fine. Again, most of you have not walked in my shoes, therefore, do not know what I am trying to say....

Bottom line.... And I keep writing this, #1. Breeders breed to make money, give me a break. They may or may not make a lot, but it's their business. Because we live in America, it is their right.

#2. Most of you have seen the post about breeding and what it can do to the bitches. (that was said perfectly)

#3. The U.S. ALONE puts down over 7 million pets a year because they can't find homes for them.

#4. My production company has saved over 300 animals ranging from rats, snakes, ferrets, dogs, cats, ducks, pigeons, mini horses, llamas, and a bunch of others...because people "can't deal with them." OR the best yet.... They are "untrainable," ............well they did a hell of a job perfoming in front of 5,000 people per day at my shows...doing what was natural, getting the BEST vet care, getting the best food, lots of treats, exercising their mind, finding ever-lasing homes, and having fun. Which I can't say for the average pet. One of my dogs who is part black lab and chow mix, was put into a shelter at the age of 3 years old. On the card, the owners stated that this dog was so untrainable...... Let me tell you, this dog knows more vocal, and hand commands, can do everything, has been on t.v., newspapers etc... Has even learned and tought how "bomb dogs" are trained and has done several shows in various states..... How sad he was "untrainable". He now lives in my home at a pet, but I know he misses being on stage.

#5....****, I could keep going on.... #5, I would love to speak to any of you who breed... Maybe you really have the best intentions, it just sucks when you "sell" a dog/cat" to a person, (people are the ones who make you look bad)....because they want a cute, furry, pet-baby....until the problems start or the vet bills get to expensive. I am sorry, but there is no way in hell any of you can "bring" me to the other side. I have seen way too much abuse, neglect, abandonment...etc...

Must edit this again...
#6. This has nothing to do with puppy mills, puppy mills should not even be phrased in the same sentence with actual rep. breeders. They should be shot and/or treated the same way they treat their pups.

#7. If I am not believed.... Not that I have the time, but I have had to keep folders on each animal, wether it be a tarantula or rat, or dog, cat, snake, pig etc...I have all the background and situations and the sorry ass reasons/excuses why people could not keep them.

Please note that 90% of our animals were dogs and cats. We had a lot of different types of animals, but we had more dogs and cats than any other animals. This is the one reasone so many animal rescuse animal orgainizations loved us, we rescused older animals, trained them, exercised their minds, gave them medical treatment, payed up the a** in vet bills, gave them love, support and made them "stars." Then we found them FINAL homes to 'retire' and repeated the cycle.

Again, I have done animal shows all over the country and have relationships with vets all over, with rescue organizations all over, including "exclusive rescue breeds," the USDA, which regulates animal shows....I have seen and heard about the massive waste, abuse and neglect...NOT always coming from breeders, but yes, some, but from the "humans" who want to aquire a dog, cat what ever.... so unless you walked in my shoes......say what you want. I respect what you have to say, it is your right. But, why don't you walk in my shoes for just a mile.

There have been several posts made by me saying that I was angry and "took it out on this board." Since then, I have made some great friends... "friends" that at first blasted me until they pm'd me and we "talked." Now, we see each other as friends and now have fun. I have seen some of the above posts about me, but I have yet to see a "real" postive post or a "real" anything in reagards to breeding more animals. Not to start a fight, but more of a nice debate... How many of you, who posted have "saved" over 300 unwanted animals, or are even in the business of doing so???????

We even "saved" 3 dogs that didn't make it through Customs Training. So at least 3 of our dogs, 2 German Shep. and one Collie, all of which came from "rep." breeders, U.S. Customs "got" them, the dumb ass trainers thought they were "untrainable," put them in the Atlanta Humane Society, and we were called and rescued all 3, and they were SOOOOOOOOOOOOO trainable, and did more than their share. All 3 could have easily gone through the training process. As a matter of fact, to prove u.s. cutoms wrong, we did that type of training and incorporated that into our shows, letting guests know the importance of bomb sniffing, police attack dogs, and cadver rescue.

As for the above posters, if none of the above defines you, than I have nothing bad to say to any of you. But, yes, after all these years I want to scream from the roof tops, don't you? I know some of you must be in touch with your community and can't stand the ignorance and abuse. It comes to a point where anyone gets fustrated. Even if I came across harsh, I would seem to think that at least some of you were on my side. No matter, I will still continue to do what I do....

So again, before you blast me, let me lend you my sneakers....
Amy Baldwin

Last edited by amymarley; 10-02-2005 at 02:25 AM.
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  #17  
Old 10-02-2005, 05:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by animalbiz
To be quite honest, I am most likely not talking to the "people" I want to reach. They are most likely not on this forum, and therefore are prob. unreachable anyway...

The dog owners, breeders, and dog lovers here are here for a reason. That's why they post.

I do know some dog breeders that I do respect....but I still hate the fact that there are so many dogs in shelters that need a loving home and when there is NO need for shelters, then yes breed. Some people just like certain breeds... that's fine. Again, most of you have not walked in my shoes, therefore, do not know what I am trying to say....

Bottom line.... And I keep writing this, #1. Breeders breed to make money, give me a break. They may or may not make a lot, but it's their business. Because we live in America, it is their right.

#2. Most of you have seen the post about breeding and what it can do to the bitches. (that was said perfectly)

#3. The U.S. ALONE puts down over 7 million pets a year because they can't find homes for them.

#4. My production company has saved over 300 animals ranging from rats, snakes, ferrets, dogs, cats, ducks, pigeons, mini horses, llamas, and a bunch of others...because people "can't deal with them." OR the best yet.... They are "untrainable," ............well they did a hell of a job perfoming in front of 5,000 people per day at my shows...doing what was natural, getting the BEST vet care, getting the best food, lots of treats, exercising their mind, finding ever-lasing homes, and having fun. Which I can't say for the average pet. One of my dogs who is part black lab and chow mix, was put into a shelter at the age of 3 years old. On the card, the owners stated that this dog was so untrainable...... Let me tell you, this dog knows more vocal, and hand commands, can do everything, has been on t.v., newspapers etc... Has even learned and tought how "bomb dogs" are trained and has done several shows in various states..... How sad he was "untrainable". He now lives in my home at a pet, but I know he misses being on stage.

#5....****, I could keep going on.... #5, I would love to speak to any of you who breed... Maybe you really have the best intentions, it just sucks when you "sell" a dog/cat" to a person, (people are the ones who make you look bad)....because they want a cute, furry, pet-baby....until the problems start or the vet bills get to expensive. I am sorry, but there is no way in hell any of you can "bring" me to the other side. I have seen way too much abuse, neglect, abandonment...etc...

Must edit this again...
#6. This has nothing to do with puppy mills, puppy mills should not even be phrased in the same sentence with actual rep. breeders. They should be shot and/or treated the same way they treat their pups.

#7. If I am not believed.... Not that I have the time, but I have had to keep folders on each animal, wether it be a tarantula or rat, or dog, cat, snake, pig etc...I have all the background and situations and the sorry ass reasons/excuses why people could not keep them.

Please note that 90% of our animals were dogs and cats. We had a lot of different types of animals, but we had more dogs and cats than any other animals. This is the one reasone so many animal rescuse animal orgainizations loved us, we rescused older animals, trained them, exercised their minds, gave them medical treatment, payed up the a** in vet bills, gave them love, support and made them "stars." Then we found them FINAL homes to 'retire' and repeated the cycle.

Again, I have done animal shows all over the country and have relationships with vets all over, with rescue organizations all over, including "exclusive rescue breeds," the USDA, which regulates animal shows....I have seen and heard about the massive waste, abuse and neglect...NOT always coming from breeders, but yes, some, but from the "humans" who want to aquire a dog, cat what ever.... so unless you walked in my shoes......say what you want. I respect what you have to say, it is your right. But, why don't you walk in my shoes for just a mile.

There have been several posts made by me saying that I was angry and "took it out on this board." Since then, I have made some great friends... "friends" that at first blasted me until they pm'd me and we "talked." Now, we see each other as friends and now have fun. I have seen some of the above posts about me, but I have yet to see a "real" postive post or a "real" anything in reagards to breeding more animals. Not to start a fight, but more of a nice debate... How many of you, who posted have "saved" over 300 unwanted animals, or are even in the business of doing so???????

We even "saved" 3 dogs that didn't make it through Customs Training. So at least 3 of our dogs, 2 German Shep. and one Collie, all of which came from "rep." breeders, U.S. Customs "got" them, the dumb ass trainers thought they were "untrainable," put them in the Atlanta Humane Society, and we were called and rescued all 3, and they were SOOOOOOOOOOOOO trainable, and did more than their share. All 3 could have easily gone through the training process. As a matter of fact, to prove u.s. cutoms wrong, we did that type of training and incorporated that into our shows, letting guests know the importance of bomb sniffing, police attack dogs, and cadver rescue.

As for the above posters, if none of the above defines you, than I have nothing bad to say to any of you. But, yes, after all these years I want to scream from the roof tops, don't you? I know some of you must be in touch with your community and can't stand the ignorance and abuse. It comes to a point where anyone gets fustrated. Even if I came across harsh, I would seem to think that at least some of you were on my side. No matter, I will still continue to do what I do....

So again, before you blast me, let me lend you my sneakers....
Amy Baldwin
AnimalBiz,
You do make sense in saying that all breeders breed to make money. If you were well educated in this area, you would know that GOOD breeders never make money. If you are interested, there is a stickied post either in this forum or the Puppy Forum that is appropriately named 'So You Think You Know It All?' It explains how a good breeder operates. I, too, think that way too many dogs are bred. I think they should be licensed and few and far between. The breeds have to keep going because they have served a purpose for several years. There are people that make breeding "their business." Those are the bad breeders.
No one looks down on you for disagreeing with too much breeding. We all do. Most of us think that breeders should be licensed and put out a spay/neuter contract with their puppies. The GOOD breeders on this board take back their puppies when the new owners decide that the puppy is too much for them, they take that puppy back.
Also, that is great that you have taken in 'over 300 rescues.' A lot of us on here have taken in rescues. Rescue is wonderful! I myself have 4 rescues and one purebred. But, I don't think numbers matter really. I think everyone should be involved in rescue at least once. Just to see the reality of things. I think it's a good idea. But, as I have said before, you can't push what you believe on someone, because the more you push, the further away they get. I guess you can take what I say with a grain of salt. I know I can't 'bring you to the other side.' I am just explaining that you can agree with rescuing and breeding at the same time. Responsible breeding. None of us agree with irresponsible breeding. I hope this post makes a little more sense than my above posts.
I know I feel better.
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My angel, my best friend, my Roxy Mae. There are no words to describe what you meant to me. RIP bebe.

"A righteous man has regard for the life of his beast." Proverbs 12:10

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  #18  
Old 10-03-2005, 01:06 AM
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ANYONE who says that educated, responsible breeders breed to make money is a horse's patu. Educated, dedicated, responsible breeders breed to improve upon their chosen breed. They very often will place puppies out on co-ownerships, with no money exchanging hands. Most breeders take at least 25 years to even BREAK EVEN. Again, I wish people would save their harrangues for those things they know about!!!!!!!
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  #19  
Old 10-03-2005, 12:53 PM
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Ash47 Ash47 is offline
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That's another way to put it Manchesters
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