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  #11  
Old 03-26-2010, 11:42 PM
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Tsume'sMom Tsume'sMom is offline
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I have used physical placement to teach sit, but you don't have to push anything.

One hand on neck then run your other hand down the back and around the rump into the back legs. It takes almost no preasure at all and "rolls" the dog back on his butt.

After about a week most dogs get that the command means to be on their butt. No pushing, pulling, catching, yanking, lureing, or clicking needed.
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Old 03-26-2010, 11:57 PM
Saeleofu Saeleofu is offline
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After about a week most dogs get that the command means to be on their butt. No pushing, pulling, catching, yanking, lureing, or clicking needed.
A week? Wow. I have never taken more than a day to teach sit. Most dogs I've been around get it pretty fast - just a few repetitions. I can't imagine taking a whole week just to train "sit."

Also, I wanted to add that the "butt taps" I mentioned earlier aren't actually to teach sit, but more as a reminder for a dog that's distracted. Just like sometimes when Gavroche is off not paying attention, a light tap on his forehead/check gets him to go "OH! What are we doing again?"
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Old 03-27-2010, 08:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Saeleofu View Post
A week? Wow. I have never taken more than a day to teach sit. Most dogs I've been around get it pretty fast - just a few repetitions. I can't imagine taking a whole week just to train "sit."
I'm talking reliable sit. Where command responce is 98% or better even in distractions. I've never had a dog that was that good with sit in a day (even more so a distractable puppy). But by week three of basic obediance the dog is fully reliable in sit.

Just beacuse they respond the first day, does not mean they have fully learned the command. It takes repition and consistancey to truely train your dog.
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Old 03-27-2010, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Tsume'sMom View Post
I'm talking reliable sit. Where command responce is 98% or better even in distractions. I've never had a dog that was that good with sit in a day (even more so a distractable puppy). But by week three of basic obediance the dog is fully reliable in sit.

Just beacuse they respond the first day, does not mean they have fully learned the command. It takes repition and consistancey to truely train your dog.
No kidding! I agree. There's so much more to getting a sit that is on stimulus control than meets the eye. Try at the end of the first day of teaching sit, when you're 100 feet away from your dog, turning sideways and give your cue while some kids are playing basket ball 15 feet away from him. Or telling your resting dog, who is lying down to sit while you're not looking straight at him. Or as he's running across a field, hollering from a distance to sit. The first way you do it when starting out might be that you're standing in front of him, sort of bending over if you're luring to teach it... and you're using some particular type of body language. You might be using the same tone of voice every time, not too loud, not too soft since you're inside the house maybe where it's quiet. THAT....that combination of position, location, body language, voice, what's going on around him, whatever else he's doing and his putting his rear on the ground IS what sit is to him....not necessarily JUST putting his butt on the ground. Until you can separate the actual sit from all other behaviors and other things that are going on, he really doesn't know what sit is. That's why it's important to mix things up asap after he starts to get a handle on it, so he doesn't get stuck in the one context for too long.
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Old 03-27-2010, 11:58 AM
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While I sometimes use congruent learning (capturing the behavior), it's so easy to teach a sit that I just take a couple of minutes a few times throughout the day to work on it. The old way was to hold onto the dog's collar (buckle or chain, with or without leash) to hold his head up and push down either at the base of the tail or with fingers in the leg/hip joint. Prior to that, I think people probably used their finger to point and as the dog followed the finger, they'd sit.

I don't think that when your dog didn't sit it wasn't because he doesn't respect your alpha position. He didn't sit because he really didn't quite get it yet.
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Old 03-28-2010, 02:58 PM
Criosphynx Criosphynx is offline
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I capture to teach sits and downs. In fact I'd say I capture/shape 90% or more of everything I teach...the dog full understands that he is the source of the click, not anything I did. To me the process is the product.

you get a smoother sphinx type down IMO that way versus a lure.


I frequently see people pushing, tapping or even hitting their dogs rear to make them sit after they said sit four times and the dog didn't comply...IMO if you don't fade the touch quick enough the touch becomes the cue...and I want a verbal or hand signal cue for that behavior personally...not a physical one.
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Old 03-28-2010, 07:49 PM
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Clicker Training 101


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  #18  
Old 03-28-2010, 11:11 PM
Saeleofu Saeleofu is offline
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So yesteday was Yappy Days and one of the obedience trainers around here had "obedience" demonstrations ("obedience" because it wasn't really much obedience, and the dogs weren't listening to a word they said). If their dogs didn't sit after 3 commands, they KICKED the dogs on the top of the hips, REPEATEDLY, and hard. Ugh. Even then most of them never ended up sitting.
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Old 03-28-2010, 11:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saeleofu View Post
they KICKED the dogs on the top of the hips, REPEATEDLY, and hard. Ugh. Even then most of them never ended up sitting.
Wow, never seen that one.

My standard is, if I wouldn't do it to Luna - a 7-pound, 8-inch tall chihuahua -I wouldn't do it with any dog. And I can safely say that I would NEVER kick a 7-pound, 8-inch tall dog in the hips. And would hope that even a trainer who would do it with large dogs - as terrible as that is - would never do it with a small dog.
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Old 03-28-2010, 11:30 PM
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corgipower corgipower is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saeleofu View Post
So yesteday was Yappy Days and one of the obedience trainers around here had "obedience" demonstrations ("obedience" because it wasn't really much obedience, and the dogs weren't listening to a word they said). If their dogs didn't sit after 3 commands, they KICKED the dogs on the top of the hips, REPEATEDLY, and hard. Ugh. Even then most of them never ended up sitting.


I'd like to see them try that with Nyx...just don't cry to me when you're missing a limb...
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