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  #11  
Old 03-18-2010, 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted by GlassOnion View Post
So y'all are saying to train only one command at once? I usually run her through a gauntlet of commands so she doesn't get bored of just doing the same command over and over again.
Do it in different places within your home, then move to the back yard etc

Kept the sessions very short and exciting.
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  #12  
Old 03-18-2010, 06:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Tsume'sMom View Post
If the reward is truely rewarding for the dog, and the click marks the behavior that earns the reward, the dog should be looking for the reward the moment they hear the click.
The bold part is the same as what I was saying...if the dog isn't looking for the reward, then it doesn't necessarily mean he doesn't understand the meaning of the click. It very well could mean the reward isn't motivational enough.
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  #13  
Old 03-18-2010, 06:31 PM
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You need to be clicking for something, instead of just randomly
I disagree with that. You don't have to be clicking for anything in particular in order to charge or prime the clicker. All you're doing is getting her conditioned to pairing the click sound to a reward. You don't have to be teaching or reinforcing anything yet. Keeping it very random is what you need in order to not train in any undesireable behavior she may happen to be doing at the moment. So, random positions, random behaviors, never the same thing more than one or two times. If you inadvertantly train in something you didn't mean to, you can get rid of it later by not clicking for that or for clicking for an incompatible behavior and building that up instead. As long as you keep things mixed up, that isn't apt to happen.

You get her first, in a room with little distractions when she's quieter and apt to be engaged with you more. Click and then right away, give the treat. (not that you click and treat simultaneously) Do it over and over. Don't always be standing in the same position or when she's doing the same thing unless you want that thing to be trained in. For example: if she does make the association and she happens to be scratching her ear and you click when she's doing that too many times, she may learn that scratching her ear is a behavior worth repeating. So, mix it up so she's not always in the same position, same location or doing the same things. Then do like it was said....mix things up more. Go in another room, in a different context, then outside.

Use higher value treats on a hungry tummy if she's not really paying attention. It shouldn't take more than 10 minutes, give or take for most dogs to make the association between the click and the treat. The click does become rewardable even though it is not the primary reinforcer and has no inherent value in itself. That is why it is called a conditioned reinforcer....because the dog gets conditioned to tying that together with the fact that she's going to get a treat. It's like you getting a paycheck. The paper the check is written on doesn't have any value in itself. But what it represents...what's coming next does. And you get excited when you get your pay check. Never click without rewarding after or she'll lose the meaning of the click.

Some people don't even charge the clicker at all. You can click for behaviors she already knows, like sit or down at first. Click just as she sits and then treat within a second or two. Eventually, she'll make the association between the sound of the click and getting a treat. And the clicker will be useful to identify new behaviors you're working on or parts of behaviors, as with shaping once it's primed.

You can, after a bit, grab the clicker when she's not expecting it...when you haven't already been doing this just prior. Click it. (and get ready to treat her) You'll know she's made the association when she looks at you eagerly, like..."I heard that noise. Now where's my treat?" LOL.
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Last edited by Doberluv; 03-18-2010 at 06:42 PM.
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  #14  
Old 03-18-2010, 07:23 PM
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One VERY important tidbit about clicker training that I don't think has been mentioned in this thread yet: Click THEN treat.

When you're clicking with your dog, it is extremely important to keep your entire body still until AFTER you clicked. Dogs are much more attuned to our body language than they are to sounds, and if you're reaching for a treat the same time you're clicking, she's not going to listen for the click, she'll just watch for you reaching for the treat. So do not put treats in your hands, do not keep your hands in the treat container; just keep your hands still at your side, wait for the behavior you want, click it, pause, then reach for the treat. (The pause is important because if you don't consciously pause, you'll reach for the treat before you're done clicking.) You'll know that you're confusing your dog if you see her looking at your hands just before you click.
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Old 03-20-2010, 10:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsume'sMom View Post
If the reward is truely rewarding for the dog, and the click marks the behavior that earns the reward, the dog should be looking for the reward the moment they hear the click.

That conditioning is the foundation of clicker training.
The more clicker savvy mine get, the less they are looking for the reward. I reward in different places for different behaviors. I might toss a treat on the ground, or by the dogs foot, or in/on an object we are using as a prop. They *know* the treat is coming, so often, they don't get out of position to come look for the treat.

If I'm clicking for duration on a down-stay, they don't get up to come get the reward. They continue to lie down and I would drop the treat on th floor between their paws.

When teaching my young dog to scratch his ear on command, he is usually curled into a relaxed down and I reward near his back foot. Between clicks he isn't moving out of position to get the treat. He is keeping his head near the leg that is "scratching" and I'm rewarding near the back foot.

I would agree that GO is missing something in his training. I don't think most people realise how precise the clicker is. What you click is what you get If she's getting bored and leaving you probably aren't clicking often enough. If you are working the sit, click a sit, treat, release click another sit. It should only be 1-3 seconds between clicks. It's hard to learn to manage treats, clicker, dog, and timing at first, but you will get it.
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  #16  
Old 03-20-2010, 10:18 AM
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Oh, and I don't prime, or charge the clicker anymore. I start with something I can capture easily. I think I actually just played 101 things to do with a box at first. Sometimes I might try a hand touch first. Just depends.

It's been proven that you don't have to charge the clicker. Some people prefer to, others think you risk shaping odd behaviors by just sitting there charging the clicker.
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  #17  
Old 03-20-2010, 10:22 AM
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Quote:
One VERY important tidbit about clicker training that I don't think has been mentioned in this thread yet: Click THEN treat.
Yes, it was mentioned. I mentioned it.
Quote:
Click and then right away, give the treat. (not that you click and treat simultaneously)

Quote:
They *know* the treat is coming, so often, they don't get out of position to come look for the treat.
That's important because you don't want to reinforce the getting out of position rather than the behavior itself that you want. As long as your timing is Johnny on the spot and you click for the exact behavior you want, not the getting up out of position, and you treat right soon after the click, they catch on pretty quickly to what it is you're rewarding them for and wait for you to bring them the treat.
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  #18  
Old 03-20-2010, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by OutlineACDs View Post
If I'm clicking for duration on a down-stay, they don't get up to come get the reward.
So you are giving the dog one command and click/rewarding through the one command?

If I did that with Tsume it would be game over. The reward (be it food, toy, or just my praise) it the end of the command. I guess everyone teaches extended stays differantly, but to me this would seem confuseing to a dog. If you teach it this way, how do you remove the excess rewards out of a 5min stay? Because I have always taught it so there is nothing to remove, just slighty longer to wait for the reward and a better reward the longer the dog waits.
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  #19  
Old 03-20-2010, 10:31 AM
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Anything the dog does after the click is fine. I use the clicker for training stays all the time. I don't care if the dog continues to stay or runs laps around me after the click/treat. Anything they choose at that moment is fine.
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  #20  
Old 03-20-2010, 11:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsume'sMom View Post
So you are giving the dog one command and click/rewarding through the one command?

If I did that with Tsume it would be game over. The reward (be it food, toy, or just my praise) it the end of the command. I guess everyone teaches extended stays differantly, but to me this would seem confuseing to a dog. If you teach it this way, how do you remove the excess rewards out of a 5min stay? Because I have always taught it so there is nothing to remove, just slighty longer to wait for the reward and a better reward the longer the dog waits.
You are not c/r the down/sit but the duration, big difference. When the dog/pup is solid with the down, then I start adding duration, then distance. You can't have distance until you have duration The c/r comes at the end, not in the middle at this point.

For an example, once I have duration and I start getting distance (even one step back or turning my back), I click and then move back to the dog/pup to reward. They don't move.
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