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View Poll Results: Yes No or doesnt matter
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  #41  
Old 02-24-2010, 10:11 PM
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Dekka Dekka is offline
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I don't hate them.. but to say they are magic is silly. They work cause the discomrort caused is greater than the desire to do the 'unwanted' behaviour. If it didn't hurt it wouldn't work.

And I know dogs who dance at the sight of an e collar. Its cause it means walks not because the dog loves the collar. Now it does say they dog is not horrified by it either. Dekka hides if I bring out a coat lol.

The trick is to see what the dog is telling you.. if the prong works then its cause it causes some amount of pain. If a small amount of pain as a back up to stop your dog dragging you into the street after a cat.. so be it. And if your dog is reactive be prepared to handle any fallout.. But we are all too smart here to believe this tool is working by magic.

(oh and even the e collar trainers I know say you should never correct with a prong cause its too harsh.. The prong is 'supposed' to let the dog self correct. I have seen some amazing.. as in top obed dogs in canada.. produced by letting the dog self correct on a prong combined with lots of food/toy rewards.)
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  #42  
Old 02-24-2010, 11:13 PM
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vanillasugar vanillasugar is offline
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I know generally Sierra gets excited about "getting dressed", but the difference in her attitude towards her head halter and her prong is really what convinced me. She runs away from her head halter and tries to hide either in her crate or behind a chair. She shuts down as soon as I put it on. The dancing happily to go out for a walk when she sees the prong is reassuring to me.

I do not use the prong for every single walk, and I do not use it in situations where I know there are going to be many other dogs that she will most likely react to (because I don't want her to associate other dogs with pain, obviously). I realize it's not perfect, and there are probably better ways of going about it, but this is what is working for us.

Also, I do consider it a training tool. She is getting MUCH better at loose leash walking on her flat collar, but this helps in the meantime. And yes, I use it as a "self correcting" collar, and don't give her any "pop" correction on it. She respects it without any additional force on my part.
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  #43  
Old 02-25-2010, 01:24 AM
Saeleofu Saeleofu is offline
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Quote:
I would even use a Halti way before using a prong... have you guys ever thought of your dogs self-correcting themselves when they see other dogs, and that constant negative stimulation exacerbating their DA issues?
Healcollars are more dangerous than prongs. And head collars, too, give constant positive punishment.
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  #44  
Old 02-25-2010, 03:03 AM
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Collar pops should have been phased out with whale bone corsets in my opinion.
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  #45  
Old 02-25-2010, 05:47 AM
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darkchild16 darkchild16 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ihartgonzo View Post
Personally, I can get the same affect by simply saying "hey, don't forget that I'm here, too" to my dogs.

Prong collars are the most ginormous pain to put on dogs at work... firstly because the dogs despise them, and you have to stab them just to put them on. 99% of the time they are not properly fitted, I can see that and I've never ever used one. Sometimes they are literally skintight, sometimes they are loose enough to fit a hand between the dog. I see a lot of flat edges on prongs, sometimes rounded prongs, but never rubber tips. It does seem like they're more to make the person feel better than anything.

As far as using prong collars for "safety"... has anyone heard of sense-ible harnesses, and/or the many other safer, more humane ways of controlling a dog? It's the 21st century. Prong collars, chokers, etc seem so barbaric when there is so much more out there. I would even use a Halti way before using a prong... have you guys ever thought of your dogs self-correcting themselves when they see other dogs, and that constant negative stimulation exacerbating their DA issues? Has anyone who needs a prong gone through +R classes without training collars?
Yes my dog walks GREAT on a flat collar when other dogs around him are on a leash he can even walk through festivals without his prong. Shocker I know. But for some reason the dog offleash in his face gets a somewhat different reaction. Wonder why.... And since the martingale or flat the fabric will actually stretch some and isnt strong enough IMO yea I think Im going to use a prong. Since lets see this weekend he was in a properly fitted martingale and a little 10 pound mutt ran through my legs into his face to the point there was nothing I could do but maybe strangle my dog while the other dogs owner was on their porch yelling for the stupid mutt and I ended up getting hurt thankfully I didnt fall 2 inches over and land on my stomach because I could have hurt my baby. The same incident happened a day later (the lady didnt learn even after walker bit her dogs collar off) with the prong on and I had better control with that and could more effectivly keep him back.

Works great when you dont have a 75 lb dog that could bust a nylon collar too and for the head halter ummmm NOOOOOOOOOOO they are DANGEROUS!!! Any trainer worth their pay should know that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saeleofu View Post
Healcollars are more dangerous than prongs. And head collars, too, give constant positive punishment.
Exactly and since in my case its not used for training tell me why I need to risk my dogs life for some stupid people who cant keep their dogs on leash or the stupid +r people who dont believe in containing (in a proper manner on walks) their large dogs in the name of training who think using my dog for their dogs training is ok.
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  #46  
Old 02-25-2010, 07:31 AM
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ACooper ACooper is offline
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I've read this whole thread (or at least I think I have) and I haven't seen where this "magic" reference is coming from except when Elegy said they WEREN'T magic and I agreed.............so please direct me to the person here who thinks they ARE magic

And I whole heartedly agree about the 'corrections' I would never give a correction with it on. If Orson gets a little too carried away, he gives HIMSELF a correction..........end of problem.

And Gonzo, perhaps you've missed where I said I HAVE used a gentle leader, he still pulled and spun his head around scaring the crap out of me...........and we also tried some kind of anti-pull harness. That didn't even slow him down when another dog came into view. The prong collar is what works, it reminds him all by itself and I don't plan on changing that anytime soon.

There IS a discussion on the use prong collars going on in the training section in case anyone missed it. This thread was more about tips vs no tips and we've gotten far away from that......I mean, not that it's ever stopped a thread at chaz, hahahaha, but I thought maybe all of you who actually WANT to discuss prongs might want to go over there

Linky if you want it------> http://www.chazhound.com/forums/t112856/
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  #47  
Old 02-25-2010, 08:16 AM
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Dekka Dekka is offline
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Oh Nilly I know thats why I say you have to read your dog. It was more to the people saying they don't hurt that I was replying too.

Dekka's response to her coat is about the same as Sierra's to the halter But we do live in Canada so she still has to wear it. (dekka though doesn't give two hoots about her head halter though)

I don't think head halters are more dangerous. Prongs are plenty dangerous.. just in a more devious way. (and you can get head halters that don't turn the head at all, so negating the danger) If it turns out your dog is one who escalates in reactivity due to a prong, well that can have life and death consequences for some dogs.
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  #48  
Old 02-25-2010, 11:52 AM
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elegy elegy is offline
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i said they weren't magic because i get tired of the argument that prong collars are not painful.

(and i did a poor job quoting you coop- i quoted you to respond to your comment that you use a prong collar in case of emergency situations, which is why i use mine. i just tacked something else on at the end that was a response to somebody else but was too lazy to go back and pull the quote.)
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  #49  
Old 02-25-2010, 11:58 AM
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TheGoldenRetriever TheGoldenRetriever is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elegy View Post
i said they weren't magic because i get tired of the argument that prong collars are not painful.
That makes sense ... and the whole thing on word play does too. I didn't read it as insulting to anyone in particular, just as making a point. It's like when the dentist or doctor tells you that some procedure "may cause discomfort". Even though the procedure may very well be for your own good, you automatically know that phrase means "OK, this is probably gonna hurt".
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