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  #11  
Old 02-06-2010, 07:12 AM
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Brandyb Brandyb is offline
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hey, good for you and your dog! It's great that you have a quick learned. I taught Brandy using the luring method, and I've got pretty speedy weaves for her size. It just depends on how you fade the lure and how you increase the speed later.
As Dekka said, practice entries from all angles, even really odd ones, as this will only help your dogs performance in the end.
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  #12  
Old 02-07-2010, 12:07 AM
Saeleofu Saeleofu is offline
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I think for him the luring works because he really just wants you to cut the crap and just tell him what you want him to do. It took forever to teach him to retrieve, until I just gave up using the retrieve article and put the keys in his mouth, then took them out and put them on the floor and told him to get them. He was like "OH! Well why the hell didn't you say so earlier?" From that point on he thought retrieving was awesome

I taught him fronts and finishes with luring. He is rock solid on them now. Luring has its place, but it's not for all dogs, or all situations. I'm of the opinion that every training method has its place, but no training method will work well on every dog.
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  #13  
Old 02-07-2010, 06:39 AM
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if it works for you thats great... but there are reasons that pretty much all agility trainers say not to lure. It might seem to be faster but in the long run its usually slower.. as you have to fade the lure, fade you being right there etc etc.

IME other methods are faster from start to independant weaves at speed from both sides and various entry angles.

but it all depends on how good you want your weaves. I trained Kaiden by luring (before I knew more about how weaves are often presented in trials) his weaves are ok not super fast (about the same as Brandy's.. decent but not WOW) He also has issues finding the entry if I am not right beside them if its a snarky angle. And even after all this time off side weaves slighly confuse him.

Then take Dekka, who learnt through shaping. She is fast at weaving and drives through them. She has her issues with the weaves but speed and finding the entry aren't them

I am trying 2x2s with Kat and Sport and wow that is a fast method if it works!!! AND it teaches the dog what the job is (vs following your hand)
Quote:
Say good bye to taking months to teach a dog to weave and enter 12 poles in 12 Days. Yes you read that correctly, 12 poles in just 12 days. This video journal documents how Susan Garrett taught two dogs to weave from start to finish, all in a matter of few days, totaling less than 55 minutes of training time. Not quite believable is it? Especially if in the past you have struggled for months or even years with your own dog***8217;s weave pole performance.
Ok so I am not nearly so good as Susan Garrett lol.. but its pretty fast. 2x2 Weave Pole Training DVD for a video on it if anyone is interested.

I guess my point is.. if you are having fun thats great. If you want to trial and have great weaves well then luring is one of the slowest methods to teach great weaves, even if it is one of the fastest ways to get mediocre weaves. (it also depends on your venue.. some you don't need really good independant skills)
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Old 02-07-2010, 07:31 AM
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Jack learns things much better by luring too. Sometimes we do clicker work, but it seems like it takes him much longer. But I have never lured with weaves, because I've seen too many dogs at trials that are so dependent on the owner telling them when to weave or showing them where to go with their hands. I've never seen a lure taught dog that KNOWS what weaving is. I think that dogs that are forced to use their brain more and actively thinking through the whole thing. I'd like to try to shape my next dog.

The method that I taught Jack was using a channel. It worked well, he learned them very quickly, they are his favorite obstacle and he's fast.

I used knee high flexible garden fencing (not sure how to describe it?) with shower rings on the ends so they could slide over the poles. I teach the whole set (I have sections of 3 poles each, so I teach 3, 6, 9 and 12) and vary the length so he doesn't think that all poles come in sets of 6 and stop weaving, instead he knows to weave until the end.

We worked with the complete channel for a little while and then I took out some of the middle pieces. If he missed a pole, we'd put the fences back on for a while. Eventually all the fences were off except for the entrance. After he could do the whole set reliably, I'd take my set of 3, put the fences on and work on distances and every possible entrance.

But as long as you're having fun, it really doesn't matter how you teach your dog to do things!
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  #15  
Old 02-07-2010, 07:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dekka View Post
I trained Kaiden by luring (before I knew more about how weaves are often presented in trials) his weaves are ok not super fast (about the same as Brandy's.. decent but not WOW) He also has issues finding the entry if I am not right beside them if its a snarky angle. And even after all this time off side weaves slighly confuse him.
LOL - Actually, I should post a video of her weaving, she's fast (I just meant for her size, being she's pretty small, not that she's just got decent weaves - they're way better than decent), and she drives to the end - she's not a slow or cautious weaver and she's got great form. The reason being is how I faded, and encouraged. Once she understood the concept, which did not take long with luring, we added toys thrown as she exited the last pole, the drive is awesome through them. Our only problem, and it's my fault, is entrances, because we never really worked them from all angles or positions (not because we lured). I'd like to practice more but it's not always feasible. That's why I think for the OP it's important to work as many different angles as you can, then gradually add distance and different positions as well.
Yes, there are quite a few different methods to use when teaching weaves, but not all of them work the same for every dog. We tried 2x2's (which are great for entrances), channels, wires, etc. etc. but with her, the luring worked best to understand the whole concept. That may not be the case for others, but if it works, great, go with it. If you have to use multiple methods and combine them that's fine too. If you like a single method and it works for you, fantastic.

"But as long as you're having fun, it really doesn't matter how you teach your dog to do things!"

So true K9!!!
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  #16  
Old 02-08-2010, 08:01 AM
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Oh her weaves are decent (and by that i mean nice speed, moderate drive, reliable etc)... But to me I want the WOW weaves lol.. And the ones you can do from 20 feet away with drive and fast. Dekka has issues at trials slowing down and doing weaves silly dog. Though I found out this weekend when exhausted she weaves just fine.. slow for us, but fine.

I wish I had vid but I don't.. here are a couple of pics showing how much she drives through weaves lol







It does depend a bit on venue you want to play. I need great weaves as I want to be competitive in the AAC at the masters level and regionals.

But it training she can send to weaves with out me being there and is fast.

Once again it depends on what you want. If you dont' need to fade the baby sitting, then that cuts down on time. Its just that you end up needing to fade so many things in luring.

Oh and many people use more than one method to train their dogs to weave. Like I know people who have done 2x2 and weavomatics, guide wires and shaping etc etc. Because some methods teach 'parts' of weaving better than others.
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  #17  
Old 02-08-2010, 09:59 AM
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Ah! Found a video from a year or so ago. Hopefully I post this properly. I have no idea if it has sound (can't hear it right now on this computer).
These are drivey weaves, no question, taught originally with luring, added the thrown reward later on. These are WOW enough for me, I don't need crazy border collie weaves, but you see how tight she is in them, and she drives/bounces through, not walks or jogs.
These are excellent small dog weaves.
It took no time to fade her lure, Sam's easy to fade to (not in regards to weaves yet, but other things that's he's been taught). It all comes down to timing and fading correctly. If you don't fade correctly at the right time, that's when you see the baby-sat weaves, and the weave dance going on in trials.
Not saying luring is the best or only way, it's just a way it can be done among others, and done well.

Brandy Weaving! video by juliesillustration - Photobucket
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Brandy: The B Hive (JRT) - ADC, SGDC, AADC, RPT, RNMCL, CL2, CL3-R, CL3-H, CL3-S, HIT Agility JRTRO 2009 Trial

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www.juliesillustration.com

www.dogznart.blogspot.com
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