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Old 01-21-2010, 03:10 PM
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CaliTerp07 CaliTerp07 is offline
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Originally Posted by Chewbecca View Post
No, actually, his teacher has more than "just" her bachelors.
I didn't say "just"...

Trust me, these teachers ARE underpaid.
And this is coming from a PARENT whose child is out of school right now due to these strikes.
If no one is willing to do the job for $30k, then yeah, you can argue they're underpaid. I can tell you that my mom's school district (in california, where she's a kindergarten teacher) is flooded with teachers willing to teach for salaries in the low $30's, so my reference point is based on that. I've always looked at teachers as being paid in multiple ways--money is a part of that, but there are huge intangible pay checks that other professions don't get.

I do think there should be "hazard pay" like the military gives soldiers in dangerous places, for teachers willing to teach in inner city schools. I was offered a job in inner city baltimore or DC while I got my masters, but man, that is a rough place to start your career. I don't want to break up gang fights and confiscate guns from my students.

Oh man. This whole d@mn city is as corrupt as the day is long, and we cannot wait to get the hell out of here.
I hope you are able to move away quickly if you're unhappy!

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Old 01-21-2010, 05:00 PM
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Chewbecca Chewbecca is offline
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No, I know you didn't say "just", nevermind, it wasn't meant crappy towards you, just crappy that getting a bachelors degree only means $30,000. a year.
Or something like that.

We will be moving, hopefully, after July sometime.
I know corruption is everywhere, and we won't escape it, but perhaps it won't be so...blatantly obvious somewhere else.
Yeah, I know, wishful thinking.

Anyway, yeah, it's sad there are people willing to work for that little doing that job. That's what needing a job will do to people, and it's surely not their fault that they'd be willing to work for less right now.
Oh! And, his teacher is a middle school teacher.

I understand that elementary school teachers get paid less (though, I'm not sure they should get paid too much less).

I also understand that administrators make more because GENERALLY they have more education under their belt, but oh man!
These people are idiots.
And you know HOW these people get where they are, ultimately??????
Because of people voted in that hire them.
And the people voted in are voted in because...NO ONE VOTES.

Ultimately, yes, that's how it is.
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Old 01-21-2010, 06:35 PM
release the hounds release the hounds is offline
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Originally Posted by Chewbecca View Post
I'm going to take this as you guys simply do not know the local politics here.
And where the heck did you get, release the hounds, that they are making 50k a year???

My son's teacher makes barely $30,000. a year.

Did any of you bother to go to the website that is posted on that cardboard sign?

where did I get it from? Right here

KANKAKEE HIGH SCHOOL (KANKAKEE, IL) Detailed School Profile, Performance Statistics, Teacher and Student Info, Test Results

School type: HIGH SCHOOL
Grades: 9 10 11 12
Schools in district: 11
School Enrollment: 1243
White students: 28.1%
Black students: 62.3%
Hispanic students: 9.3%
Asian students: 0.3%
Native American students: 0.0%

Low income: 55.4%
Parental involvement: 92.0%
Attendance rate: 89.5%
Mobility rate: 17.9%
Chronic truants: 104
Chronic truants rate: 9.0%
Dropout rate: 3.9%
High School graduation rate: 66.4%
HS graduation rate for male students: 60.8%
HS graduation rate for female students: 72.5%
HS graduation rate for white students: 81.0%
HS graduation rate for black students: 61.0%
HS graduation rate for Hispanic students: 55.9%
HS graduation rate for Asian students: 100.0%

Average ACT composite score: 16.5
Average ACT English score: 15.4
Average ACT Math score: 16.7
Average ACT Reading score: 16.6
Average ACT Science score: 16.8
ACT test takers: 1
ACT % of school: 60.3%

Average class size HS: 16.1

Total number of teachers in district: 343
Teachers with bachelor's degree: 51.2%
Teachers with master's degree: 48.8%
Classes not taught by highly qualifed teachers: 0.8%
Male teachers: 19.8%
Female teachers: 80.2%
Teacher experience average: 12.9
Teacher/student ratio: 21.8


Average teacher salary: $47,122
Average administration staff salary: $80,856
Dollars spent per student: $7,280
Operating expenditure for instruction: $22,472,225
Operating expenditure for supporting services: $18,035,775
Operating expenditure for administration: $1,691,159
Operating expenditure for other campus costs: $7,795,969
Limited English Proficient students: 1.7%
and I did go to the website, and it didn't look all that bad to me. I made slightly less this year as well, considering all the job losses, loss of insurance plans, and cuts in payments to providers, I think I did pretty well. But life isn't easy for anyone right now, and as a whole I think teachers are valuable, but man can they whine with the best of them, and I lived in an auto town with a GM union.
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Old 01-21-2010, 06:44 PM
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Chewbecca Chewbecca is offline
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That's high school salary, and that's still insanely low.

That's not middle school salary.

Let them whine, it's their freakin' right.

They're IN A UNION.
They OBVIOUSLY can strike and whine all they want.

I still stick by what I said: MORE POWER TO THEM.
Good for them for striking.
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Old 01-21-2010, 06:47 PM
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Chewbecca Chewbecca is offline
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And HONESTLY, how can YOU, an outsider, even tell me you looked at that site and you don't think it's THAT bad???

Corrupt politics and unfairness is ok to you???

Oh, I guess they should stop bitching because they have a job, right??

If we all got paid in peanuts, should we be happy about that, too, because at least it's food???

Way to go AMERICA!
What a freakin' attitude.
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Old 01-21-2010, 07:12 PM
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Lizmo Lizmo is offline
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Wow, Chewbecca, I think you might want to take a step back. . . .

l ~Jennifer~ l
l Handler for Team Blazin' l Photographer at Joy Photography l Nikon D40X with 35mm 1.8 Nikkor Lens l
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Old 01-21-2010, 07:14 PM
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Chewbecca Chewbecca is offline
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Originally Posted by Lizmo View Post
Wow, Chewbecca, I think you might want to take a step back. . . .
Sorry, I felt a tad attacked because I posted the thread, and I didn't realize that teachers striking got under people's skin so much.
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Old 01-21-2010, 07:16 PM
release the hounds release the hounds is offline
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I see petty politics. Maybe I see them because I am an outsider.

and yes, I think they're whining. And if you think 50K is insanely low for a teacher in an area where the median income is 30K and the average house is 112K, I might think you're insane. Teachers aren't underpaid, don't have bad retirements, have exceptional health care benefits, have great vacation packages and have a wonderful support staff in unions. They often get further education paid for by the employer and in turn get paid more. They have so many benefits and they are some of the luckiest employees in the country, yet they sure do know how to complain and whine. By the products most of them seem to be churning out, yeah, they should consider themselves lucky to have a job.
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Old 01-21-2010, 07:17 PM
Ellas_Daddy Ellas_Daddy is offline
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Here are the facts. I work for this town. I don't work for the county, or the Board of Education. I work for the city.

The former Board of Education President, Shapiro, hired Legge as Superintendent last year at 160K per year for 3 years. She received about 10K in moving expenses. She never moved, anway. Shapiro stepped down and let Kramer take over President. Names are just to keep things straight, by the way. Shapiro is running things behind the scenes. Legge has a reputation as a horrible person and "hammer". Previous district she worked at had a federal lawsuit filed against them, because of this: | Blogs: Letters to the Editor

The teachers want a 0.8% raise. They would like to keep their part of health insurance premium at 20%. The BoE wants to give them nothing and make them pay 25%. Plus, they want to remove a standard retirement benefit completely.

The BoE fired 32 personnel last year, mostly teachers. They hired a few more admins. Plus, they maxed everyone out on the legal 6% for admins. Sadly, they also moved and repositioned some admins under different headings to give them even more money (average 10K increase).

Kramer has ties with several of the school's contractors. Her actions are unethical. Plus, she shut down the school pool. When parents asked where kids could compete and swim, she said the Kankakee River. I cannot think of a single year, where a child or more has not drowned in the river. I say all this just to show character. Also, none of the Board members attended the negotiations which was standard practice.

The negotiations are costing us $600 an hour for the Chicago attorney they are using. My calculations put the taxpayers' tab at 35K just for 16 meetings.

So yea, the teachers are simply fed up. I don't care how bad the economy is. You can come at me with that sob story when you no longer have internet access. I haven't received a raise in 2 years, myself, and I still back these men and women. It's more about the BS our idiot local politicians have created.

Now how in the hell did some friggin' pictures create such a storm?
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Old 01-21-2010, 07:27 PM
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Amstaffer Amstaffer is offline
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Originally Posted by CaliTerp07 View Post
Ehh...I went to the link, but I don't understand the specifics, so I'm not sure what they're striking on. Sounds like other people are getting raises in administration, but teachers aren't? Isn't that the way it always works in a recession? I know in my company, the only people who got raises the past two years are execs. I actually got a promotion (though I'm calling it a "nomotion") this year. More responsibilities, more hours, but no salary increase. It sucks, but I'd never strike over it.

Teachers have it pretty darn good, financially. I'm getting my masters to go into teaching, and while I'll never be wealthy as an educator, I will always be comfortable. I will make nearly $50k starting out with my masters, to work 9 months of the year (and the median home value here is more like 500k). I will only have students for an average of 5 hours a day (high school), with 3 hours of prep time built into my school day. Yes, there is prep time/grading/planning after hours, but once you've been teaching for 4-5 years, you can reuse a LOT of what you already have. I will be doing something fun, rewarding, and meaningful. And I'll be getting paid for it. I really can't complain about money at all.

I do believe that teachers are under appreciated and often have to deal with a lack of respect from parents and students, but I don't buy the underpaid nonsense. If the administration is crap, deal with that somehow--but striking isn't the way to do that.
If you think teacher only work 9 months a year you really need to do more research on your new profession. If your school only has you with students 5 hours a day then let me know where you are at so I can get my resume out to your HR people (just kidding). Make sure you realize that you will be the lowest paid licensed professional. You will also be the scapegoat for all the failures of the educational system. Student, Parents, unemployment and the general breakdown of the family and society will never be mentioned.

That said, reality of most large city budgets is that you can't raise teacher salaries. At this time there just isn't money available....teacher deserve more but you can't ask for money that isn't there.

The teacher should be bargaining for things that don't cost money in current budgets (Residency laws, Retirement rules etc...)
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