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  #11  
Old 01-16-2010, 05:36 PM
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SmexyPibble SmexyPibble is offline
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I worried about bringing Layla into the house, and she was the puppy. We had Georiga, who was stable, Alaska, who was stable for the most part, Samwise, who was stable, and Oliver, who was stable but very jumpy and nervous when it came to play time. But, we brought Layla into the home as a foster after a couple got her and had her in a crate for 8-12 hours a day. She was so strong willed, she went at the crate door and ripped her face apart and ripped all of her teeth out trying to get out of the crate, as well as cut up her paws. The owners were very surprised and terrified, and decided to find the puppy a new home. We decided to foster Layla, since she was a Boxer puppy and we loved Boxers, and we believed we could help her since we weren't gone for nearly as much time as her past owners were. We found that she reacted very well to our dogs since they were so stable, but we noticed that since Oliver got very nervous when play time became the time, she learned from that. That was the only unstable behavior we had with the dogs, and she reacted to it. She chased him, bit him, jumped all over him, tried to hold him down and display "alpha behavior", etc. She really fed off of his behavior. When we went swimming (I'd take all of the dogs down to the local lake and swim with them, it was awesome for exercise and for wearing them out), he'd go out into the water after the ball, and as soon as he was within her reach (she wouldn't swim after him), she launch on to him, getting very nervous and jumpy and mouthy - just like Oliver would when it became play time. We'd seperate them for the most part during play time. Both of them were perfectly fine when Oliver didn't start his nervous behavior. It seemed as if Layla didn't learn any of the stable behaviors, but instead fed off of Oliver's unstable behaviors.

When we brought Kenai into the home I wasn't worried at all. Georgia has absolutly no bad qualities what so ever, she is a very stable dog. She goes off leash almost every where and the second I say "Heel", she's at my side, no matter how many dogs or people we pass. Kenai, however, has his own personality and doesn't even think about mimicking Georgia's wonderful behavior. I think she calms him sometimes, but other than that he's his own guy. I'm glad Elly is living with my uncle since we got Kenai, because I think Kenai would had fed off her nervous and bad behavior like Layla fed off Oliver's.

But, from the way you describe Abby and the way you describe Harper, I don't believe it will be a problem for you, honestly. Abby may not "understand" other dogs, but chances are Harper will. It really doesn't sound to me like it will be a problem between the two.
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  #12  
Old 01-16-2010, 07:19 PM
Criosphynx Criosphynx is offline
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dogs do learn through watching others, but it is not dramatic, and som' seem better at it that others. Personally I would not, and do not worry about a dog picking up the habits of another dog as they are not wired to learn that way. As primates we learn by watching others (cats too) but dogs are severly lacking in this department. And as primates we have a hard time imagining an animal that doesn't learn like we do.

My puppy grew up with four role models of very varying personalities, abilities, and thresholds.

I do owe them alot for helping me raise him but In the end he grew up to be himself. Not them. And nothing like them, except for well behaved
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  #13  
Old 01-16-2010, 07:30 PM
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We were concerned about this when we got Jack. Sally is reactive to dogs and timid around strangers, and we wanted Jack to have neither of those traits obviously. Therefore, we socialized him without Sally *always* for the formative months, and we socialized the crap out of him. By the time we had them in situations *together* were they might see other dogs and greet people Jack had already established his own pattern of behavior with such things.

Although Sally is "dominant" so-to-speak, Jack is WAY more confident in social situations than she is, and often she will follow his lead, especially when it comes to strange men.

Now I have noticed that Jack is likely to react to a strange dog if Sally is there and starts reacting first--then they feed off each other, so we work to head that off at the pass.

Other than that, when it comes to things like barking, killing critters, etc, Jack has not taken after Sally at all. She barks at strange people outside the house and at the door bell and he doesn't bark at those things at all--we went all Halloween without a peep from him.
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  #14  
Old 01-16-2010, 07:38 PM
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Set your new pup up for success. If that means not having your other around because it may teach it poor manners when in new situations that's okay. Continue to work on your old dog's less than desirable traits. Good luck.
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  #15  
Old 01-18-2010, 09:29 AM
sammgirl sammgirl is offline
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Thanks guys for your input!!!

Quote:
But, from the way you describe Abby and the way you describe Harper, I don't believe it will be a problem for you, honestly. Abby may not "understand" other dogs, but chances are Harper will. It really doesn't sound to me like it will be a problem between the two.
Smexy, I hope you're right!! Abby does have many positive traits, and those I wouldn't mind Harper learning.


Quote:
dogs do learn through watching others, but it is not dramatic, and som' seem better at it that others.
I was wondering about this. Patricia McConnell makes a big point in "On the Other End of the Leash" that people are "apes" and dogs are wolves, and that dogs don't learn from mimicking the way that we do.

I know sometimes Abby copied Fleur, but it wasn't too dramatic. The most notable of those times was a trip to the park when Fleur threw herself into the pond (yes, water loving keeshond...they do exist) and Abby was like, "Oh boy, that looks fun!" and threw herself in, too!! The ride back was less then...pleasant. It was a duck pond, after all... *bleh*


Quote:
We were concerned about this when we got Jack. Sally is reactive to dogs and timid around strangers, and we wanted Jack to have neither of those traits obviously. Therefore, we socialized him without Sally *always* for the formative months, and we socialized the crap out of him. By the time we had them in situations *together* were they might see other dogs and greet people Jack had already established his own pattern of behavior with such things.
Yes, exactly! That's what I'm very much hoping for.

Quote:
Set your new pup up for success. If that means not having your other around because it may teach it poor manners when in new situations that's okay. Continue to work on your old dog's less than desirable traits. Good luck.
Yes, I do want the best for Harper. :-) I want her to grow up happy and confidant. :-)
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  #16  
Old 01-18-2010, 11:01 AM
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I don't think dogs copy each other too much but they definitely respond to signals. If one dog is being nervous and fearful the dog may not be copying the other dog but may be responding similar because "if that other dog is scared something bad must be about to happen" so he starts getting nervous too.

I think barking is another behavior dogs pick up from each other because that tends to be a group activity.

But as far as like pulling on the leash and stuff of that manner I don't see a lot of dogs learning that from each other (whether it be to pull or not to pull).
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  #17  
Old 01-18-2010, 08:15 PM
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OutlineACDs OutlineACDs is offline
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Lots and lots of good advice given here. I too, owrried about this when I brought in my new puppy. I made sure he got plenty of time to play with the older dogs in a safe setting. Basically where I knew Rumor wouldn't be reactive. When we went to the agility trial, I walked Rumor in first and crated her and allowed the puppy to walk in beside my more stable dog.

Most places he goes alone. I take him to play with my older dogs places that I know are safe from causing Rumor to react. I make sure he meets lots of other dogs and people of varying personalities, sizes and temperaments. I want him to learn what is normal and what isn't and that not all dogs like him, or want to play, and some dogs play differently than he does. I want this puppy to be "adjustable" to each situation. I don't put him in uncomfortable situations, nor do I put other dogs in a bad situation by him being around them. I always ask if the other dog is puppy friendly, and if the owner doesn't mind if they greet each other.
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