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  #11  
Old 11-19-2009, 10:39 AM
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I have both books--and really, I think it depends upon how much time one has to a) read b) work on training exercises and c) how much help you need from someone else to complete the exercises.

I found Click to Calm an easy read, and easier to implement some of the exercises (although my life's circumstances make REALLY working on some things difficult due to consistency of my available time to set up situations--reactive dog stuff). I found CU a great read--but overwhelming since I am not an agility person, etc. I don't have the time that I would like to have to really work some issues.
I think if I was recommending one over the other to the average dog owner, it would be Click to Calm.
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  #12  
Old 11-19-2009, 11:04 AM
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I liked Click to Calm a lot and used some of those exercises with Lyric. He improved. But unfortunately, we didn't have enough opportunity to practice amply with enough dogs, because of where I live.

I wonder why those exercises in CU, that are primarily done in a controlled, class-like setting couldn't be implimented or transferred gradually to a more casual environment, where you can't contol everything. Isn't that the point of going through these exercises/methods...so that eventually, your dog becomes less reactive or non-reactive in a variety of environments or settings? Or is she just explaining things in relation to a class setting where everything is controlled? Then you're suppose to take it on the road, right?

It's funny. Lyric, my Dobe was dog reactive on a casual, on leash walk where he would see all kinds of dogs he may or may not be familiar with, but not in class settings. He was just fine when he was in that "working mode." He just went about his business in obedience or agility classes. There was one exception and that was when we first walked into class on just one occassion. He was young and we had just entered the out door horse arena where class was done and he yanked me so hard, I fell right down prone, in the dirt. I was so pisst at him. LOL!
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  #13  
Old 11-19-2009, 11:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doberluv View Post
I wonder why those exercises in CU, that are primarily done in a controlled, class-like setting couldn't be implimented or transferred gradually to a more casual environment, where you can't contol everything. Isn't that the point of going through these exercises/methods...so that eventually, your dog becomes less reactive or non-reactive in a variety of environments or settings? Or is she just explaining things in relation to a class setting where everything is controlled? Then you're suppose to take it on the road, right?
For the most part, she is explaining things in relation to a class setting.

Also, there are a number of exercises using a "box" made of ring gates with or without distractions on the outside of the box. The dog is introduced to the box in such a way that it is a safety zone for him and then ring gates are slowly taken away as he gets better at not reacting. There are exercises of dogs moving near and around each other in very controlled ways. Exercises of parallel racing which involves two dogs and ring gates, exercises teaching the reactive dog to tolerate a dog coming head on - again using a second and very controlled dog and using ring gates.

There are exercises like relaxation, teaching the dog to relax and turn off on a mat, building an on-off switch, whiplash turns, look at that and several others that certainly could be done without a classroom and that even should be done initially at home. It's more of a question of how much benefit of the entire CU program is being lost by not being able to do the "box work" and have the controlled distractions. Leslie states that the exercises build on each other, so when you end up skipping some of the earliest steps, it's not clear on what to expect with the later ones.

Did that make any sense?
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  #14  
Old 11-19-2009, 11:37 AM
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How about a discussion for C2C? If that works for Peyton I'll gladly take the CU book and bop myself on the head with it and post on youtube that happening.

My clicker is well loader but Peyton has convenient hearing I guess. Her over-reativeness could have been the reason she ended up in the dog pound in the first place. Perhaps the previous owner just couldn't deal with her excitement level. The only thing I haven't tried is Valium to Calm.

I can deal with it, but it's not healthy for any of us and also endangers herself and has cause fights. All of us here know all the reasons our dogs shouldn't act this way but finding the right way to re-train them is the real question.
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Old 11-19-2009, 11:40 AM
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CU is overwhelming to me, I've tried a few of times to get through it and fell asleep every time.

As someone with an over reactive dog, I feel pretty desperate for answers. I had hopes that book would show me the way. The hope I had, diminished soon after picking up this book.

I won't ever give up on Peyton, so I have to keep going, keep trying anything and everything. I'm trying to find someone locally that teaches CU in a class setting. Maybe that's my answer but what I can say is that the book didn't do it for me.

Peyton learned LAT quickly and it helped her in some fearful situations, but LAT was useless when she saw another dog. There is just no reward greater to her than playtime and even if the dog is a mile away she still cannot be refocused. I guess I could start at 2 miles but I think this is beginning to border on the ridiculous.

I "think" Leslie uses the term hypervigilante in her book and I would describe Peyton as hypervigilante to the power of 10. Maybe I should use the book to bop Peyton on the top of the head because nothing I've tried "in" the book has worked so far.

Honestly, I can't recommend this book unless you are a well qualified dog trainer to begin with and have an inordinate amount of time to digest it all and complete the program start to finish.

There are no quick fixes in this book at least that I have found, and in order for it to have any success, you have to read your dog very precisely and work right at the edge of threshold. But like Corgi said, in the real world you can't always control all the conditions and I can see myself getting frustrated and inpatient when things don't go "by the book".

It's well written I agree, but I also think it's beyond the average dog owners ability to grasp and implement.

You MUST have a good understanding of the goals of CU in order to implement them. If your dog is THAT worked up you are doing it all wrong. If two miles is the necessary distance then that is what you work with.

THERE ARE NO QUICK FIXES WITH REACTIVE DOGS.


There just aren't. My dog is almost 4, she is still reactive although she is less reactive than she was two years ago, or even one year ago. You must work constantly and YOU must be contantly hypervigilant to the dogs surroundings and her mood/behavior. If your dog is that recative why in the world would you take her to the dog park??????
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  #16  
Old 11-19-2009, 11:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeLacy View Post
How about a discussion for C2C?
Feel free to start a C2C thread.
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  #17  
Old 11-19-2009, 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by OutlineACDs View Post
If your dog is that recative why in the world would you take her to the dog park??????
Well Peyton is hypervilgant by Leslies definition when she walks out of the front door for even a walk. Head scanning everything and everywhere, bouncy bouncy, pull pull until she heels. She heels very well once she hears the command until she finds another dog and she is ALWAYS scanning.

I take her to the DP to burn off energy and socialization and the fact she loves it so much. She would actually rather play ball than chase dogs and so I focus on that with her and Jax at the DP. Originally, I thought flooding her with other dogs would be the answer, it appears now it had the opposite effect.

One would think, that a tennis ball would refocus her when we are not at the DP. For some strange reason it only works at the DP and for as long as I throw it. If I take a break then she's off to chase and play with dogs.

Peyton has one speed at the DP, "fast as her legs will take her". She will run until her legs give out from under her. I have to take her home before she hurts herself. She just loves it!

I also thought getting Jax as a 24/7 play buddy would curtail her enthusiasm. Jax had only been here 5 or 6 weeks now and they play all day, but if I take them to the DP, Peyton is STILL ready to run until she drops. Peyton's name should be Play-ton.
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  #18  
Old 11-19-2009, 03:23 PM
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Victor was like that. He is 5 and a half now and much calmer but not compared to other dogs. Just compared to how he use to be. Peyton is still really young. i think 5-7 is just ideal and after that things slow down gradually and time speeds up.
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  #19  
Old 11-19-2009, 04:25 PM
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I doubt Peyton will slow down at 5 or 7 since she's an Aussie.
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  #20  
Old 11-19-2009, 04:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeLacy View Post

I also thought getting Jax as a 24/7 play buddy would curtail her enthusiasm. Jax had only been here 5 or 6 weeks now and they play all day, but if I take them to the DP, Peyton is STILL ready to run until she drops. Peyton's name should be Play-ton.
Just a thought.. you could be overstimulating her. The fitter and more stimulated she gets the more she will need. Perhaps she needs more control? I have me quite a few over the top hyper JRTs.. they often are owned by people who keep the dog stimulated and very fit. There is a fine balance between over stimulated and under stimulated.
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