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Old 11-18-2009, 07:39 PM
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I just read most of this book and skimmed the rest.

My initial thoughts are that it is an excellent book - well written, lots of good examples and training plans and an effective approach. It let me down a bit though because much of it seems to be geared towards structured class exercises with controlled distractions and some is geared towards agility training and none of it really explains ways to apply the training in public settings without having done a CU class. Exercises that have dogs moving around each other in a variety of controlled ways won't really help when you need to walk the dog through town.

IMO, this is a great book for trainers and serious enthusiasts and anyone who is or will be taking a CU class. But would I recommend it for the average JQP dog owner? Not as a first choice. I would recommend Click to Calm over CU to the average dog owner. CU might be a bit overwhelming.

For anyone else that has read this book, what did you think of it? Would you recommend it? Have you used all or part of the training described in the book and if so, how'd it go?
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Old 11-18-2009, 07:44 PM
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Yes, very much reccommended. I have read it and used most portions of the book.

Just get creative. You can play LAT (look at that) anywhere and with anything. I do this the most with my fearful dog.

Mat work helps as well. Especially with indoor behaviors, but I have pulled out our mat at a show too.

I probably wouldn't reccommend it to someone who didn't have a good understanding of clicker training. Its very much about using shaping to get the right responses and WATCH your dog to know if you are pushing too far.
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Old 11-18-2009, 09:25 PM
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I agree with everything you said.

I really enjoyed the book and was able to stop my Lab from being so over aroused when other dogs did agility or simply played around him with the look at that game.

I wanted to try the dog in your face game as well even tho he doesnt have agression issues but like you said the book only talked about how to do it in a controlled setting and I dont have much access to other dogs that I could play that game with.

I do reccomend the book but for people who have a good amount of clicker training experence otherwise I think it would become a bit confusing to some.
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Old 11-18-2009, 10:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corgipower View Post
IIMO, this is a great book for trainers and serious enthusiasts and anyone who is or will be taking a CU class. But would I recommend it for the average JQP dog owner? Not as a first choice. I would recommend Click to Calm over CU to the average dog owner. CU might be a bit overwhelming.
This exactly. It's always kind of suprised me that about 90% of the time CU is suggested as the first chioce for reactive dog issues on this forum, rather than C2C. CU is better for people who want to go on to do agility, flyball, or other such sports, but for JQP, I usually recommend C2C first.
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Old 11-18-2009, 10:13 PM
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Thanks for the review, that's very helpful!
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Old 11-19-2009, 08:28 AM
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CU is overwhelming to me, I've tried a few of times to get through it and fell asleep every time.

As someone with an over reactive dog, I feel pretty desperate for answers. I had hopes that book would show me the way. The hope I had, diminished soon after picking up this book.

I won't ever give up on Peyton, so I have to keep going, keep trying anything and everything. I'm trying to find someone locally that teaches CU in a class setting. Maybe that's my answer but what I can say is that the book didn't do it for me.

Peyton learned LAT quickly and it helped her in some fearful situations, but LAT was useless when she saw another dog. There is just no reward greater to her than playtime and even if the dog is a mile away she still cannot be refocused. I guess I could start at 2 miles but I think this is beginning to border on the ridiculous.

I "think" Leslie uses the term hypervigilante in her book and I would describe Peyton as hypervigilante to the power of 10. Maybe I should use the book to bop Peyton on the top of the head because nothing I've tried "in" the book has worked so far.

Honestly, I can't recommend this book unless you are a well qualified dog trainer to begin with and have an inordinate amount of time to digest it all and complete the program start to finish.

There are no quick fixes in this book at least that I have found, and in order for it to have any success, you have to read your dog very precisely and work right at the edge of threshold. But like Corgi said, in the real world you can't always control all the conditions and I can see myself getting frustrated and inpatient when things don't go "by the book".

It's well written I agree, but I also think it's beyond the average dog owners ability to grasp and implement.
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Old 11-19-2009, 08:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeLacy View Post

Peyton learned LAT quickly and it helped her in some fearful situations, but LAT was useless when she saw another dog. There is just no reward greater to her than playtime and even if the dog is a mile away she still cannot be refocused. I guess I could start at 2 miles but I think this is beginning to border on the ridiculous.

I "think" Leslie uses the term hypervigilante in her book and I would describe Peyton as hypervigilante to the power of 10. Maybe I should use the book to bop Peyton on the top of the head because nothing I've tried "in" the book has worked so far.

Honestly, I can't recommend this book unless you are a well qualified dog trainer to begin with and have an inordinate amount of time to digest it all and complete the program start to finish.

There are no quick fixes in this book at least that I have found, and in order for it to have any success, you have to read your dog very precisely and work right at the edge of threshold. But like Corgi said, in the real world you can't always control all the conditions and I can see myself getting frustrated and inpatient when things don't go "by the book".

It's well written I agree, but I also think it's beyond the average dog owners ability to grasp and implement.

Just reading your post a few things pop up. Your attitude will have a lot to do with how your dog reacts. I have known some great owners who have well trained dogs who compete in flyball and agility who can't teach a good heel. You know why? They think its boring. Their attitude to heeling gets in their way of teaching it to their dog. Dogs are sooo intune with is.

You say its 'bordering on the ridiculous' but if thats what it would take then its not ridiculous to your dog. I have got from your posts you have a set idea of how things 'aught' to be. You need to stop and see how your dog responds not how you think they should respond.

There are no quick fixes anywhere.

You have said in previous posts you use the clicker in a fundamentally wrong way. (lol you break one of the cardinal premises of the whole process) You don't always reward a click. That alone could be why this doesnt' work for you.


I do agree from skimming this book its not for JQPublic.
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Old 11-19-2009, 08:58 AM
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CU is very overwhelming to me. But i am trying! and so far so good.

Luckily I am very very good at picking up on any little thing about Ruckus's body language!
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Old 11-19-2009, 10:41 AM
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Sit, down, heel, stay, stand, roll over, sit pretty, look, leave it, drop it, catch it, get it, touch it, ring the bell, get your leash, focus, sit when I stop, LAT and more and ALL clicker trained. You***8217;re right Dekka, I have no clue. You saw one video where I didn***8217;t use the clicker correctly, and you jump all over that like everything I have ever done is wrong. Gimme a break...

And yeah, 2 miles is ridiculous. Peyton get***8217;s anxious IN THE CAR about two miles before we even get to the DP and read this next part very carefully ***8220;even if I take an alternate route***8221;.

Evidently, Peyton has GPS DR, she knows she "might" be going to get to play with dogs even if I***8217;m on another road she has never been on before but I***8217;m in the ***8220;general***8221; vicinity. She***8217;s already over threshold long before she even gets close to the DP.

There are no dogs in sight from the car and we are miles away, try fixing one that with LAT. There is no "This" to Look At! BTW, Peyton learned the LAT game in under 2 minutes. Peyton is an extremely quick to learn and smart Aussie. She get's it.

Peyton and Jax ride all around town with me, but let me get in the "vicinity" of the DP and I hear her in the back seat going off, getting ready to play even though the words Dog Park has never been mentioned and we may not be even going there.

What***8217;s even more interesting is that she does not react if I drive south, north or east. Let me drive west ***8220;towards***8221; the DP and she***8217;s fine up until about the 2 mile marker, then the DR begins regardless of what road I***8217;m on.

Yeah, her DR is pretty severe and I think perhaps unusually so and no amount of clicking is going to refocus her. Not even a raw steak will snap her DR focus and yes I***8217;ve tried that one too. She cares but for one thing when she***8217;s in this mental state and that***8217;s playtime.

I can***8217;t even make "progress" on her DR much less fix it totally, and this book hasn***8217;t helped me with either so far. I'm just thankful it's not aggression so I've learned to deal with it, but we can't do any dog activities or even take a rally class until this is under control.

Her DR is holding her back and I cannot seem to find a solution. It's even started to effect Jax so I tend to take only one dog at a time, which adds guilty to my already confused and frustrated situation. Obviously, I want to fix this for all of us, but I can't seem to find the answer.

DR is a no joke, real problem in our household and combined, that's nearly 100 lbs of herding dog out of control if I let it get that way.

I've sent several emails directly to Leslie requesting a referral to a trainer in my area, I have attempted to contact trainers who claim to teach this in Dallas. I have contacted every trainer I know to find a trainer that teaches CU. Yeah, I'm trying my butt off but so far, I've found nothing nor anyone to help me help her. I will keep trying.

So, I have not given up on CU and never ever Peyton, but I need more than a book to fix this problem and if CU does not work, I'll continue to look for other solutions. I have to give CU a fair chance and work the entire program and I can't do that without some very professional real time/face to face help.

I can say the book didn't help me but I can't say right now is that the CU methods won't work "if" I get a class that can guide me based on the level of DR Peyton possesses.

I don't expect quick fixes or I would have had one by now, but what I do expect is at least "some" progress and hopefully find a path to success and I think those are reasonable expectations, albeit perhaps rather lofty goals.
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Old 11-19-2009, 11:37 AM
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I attended a fund raiser for a vet clinic. I took a different highway. Came in from a different route all together. Had no idea that i was on the other side of SHawnee park. Victor knew however. He was running in place with excitement. THis was when he was about a year old. So i think they can smell the changes in land, a large body of water near by, something. He moans still when we are within a mile.

I wish i could meet Peyton. My dogs worked with Butch..Mary especially. Butch ws DA when he came. He had been on a chain for 5 years of his life and other dogs were a big worry to him. Made me smile one day when we were walking around the block and passed Butch who was out on his tie out. MAry took her stiff legs down the little hill to the yard walked up to Butch and kissed his head and then took the short cut to the driveway where we met her when we turned the corner. I think my dogs had good impact on Butch and that helped him with future dogs.

Maybe you could met up with a dog not a whole park of dogs. Play dates to start. IT has taken time. Butch is slowly but surely warming up to other dogs. WHen Logan and I walked we would be sometimes have as many as 5 leashes going which was a big deal considering how Butch started.

ONE thing i had to point out to Logan was his reaction. I was behind him and he had Butch on the leash and a dog showed up in a yard. THe dog was not approaching nor giving off any more signals than a curious look. Yet Logan tightened up on his leash, immediantly marched Butch across the street. Logan was anxious. HE had good reason because if Butch would have started a fight the other dog would have lost and because of Butch's size Logan would have been helpless to stop it. I understood his reasons but it was the wrong time. HE was not teaching Butch to read the signals. THIs dog meant no harm and Logan should have easily walked right on by. THen it would have been no big deal at all to Butch either. Getting LOgan to see this I believe helped.

I dont' think there are any easy answers nor are there one answer to fit all dogs. YOu can only try your best and weigh all the options until you find one that that does fit. SOmetimes it just takes time too. I credit your dedication. Most people would just accept it and the dog would never have a chance of changing. Logan has done great with Butch. I miss that they have moved but am lucky enough to get a visit and trail walk once in a while.
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