Dog Site - Dog Stuff
Dog Forum | Dog Pictures

Go Back   Chazhound Dog Forum > Dog and Pet Fun > Agility and Dog Sports


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old 07-29-2009, 09:52 AM
release the hounds release the hounds is offline
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Midwest
Posts: 4,107
Default

Is the trainer making you feel bad about yourself, or are you just feeling that way because things aren't going the way you want them.

I must be a totally different person than eveyrone else. I did not get the impression this trainer was saying my way or the highway. I did get the impression that you wanted help. If you know how to teach these things, then why get a trainer? Maybe your dog needs to learn certain things and not be so dependent on you? a confused dog in training at times isn't a bad thing at all.

Not rewarding for great eye contact is not a bad thing, when eye contact is NOT what you were asking for. Sometimes my dogs give me great heeling, sometimes the best in the world, but they already know it, i'm not teaching it, and i did not ask for it so they don't get rewarded for it. It's not even an issue and it certainly doesn't affect their heeling for when I do ask for it.

If I teach a dog to bark and he decides to bark when he wants, he won't get rewarded. Or if i'm working on a down and the dog sits, a perfect sit, why would I reward that? Dogs need to learn that a command and behavior is what is wanted. Not just freely doing certain things. They have to learn that when asking for attention, is when they give it, and don't stop giving it till another command is given or the exercise is ended.

Maybe your dog doesn't understand free shaping yet, but how will she ever if you never do it? or you're always directing? or if sitting there and staring will get her a reward? why would she try anything else? Maybe your trainer can see that and is trying to break that bad, bad habit now?

If you don't trust the trainer then don't go. But if she's qualified to help, and you believe she is a capable trainer then why not let her do what you're paying her to do?
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 07-29-2009, 03:14 PM
Criosphynx Criosphynx is offline
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,242
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by release the hounds View Post
Is the trainer making you feel bad about yourself, or are you just feeling that way because things aren't going the way you want them.
Niether. I am just extremely uncomfortable. I feel too much pressure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by release the hounds View Post
I must be a totally different person than eveyrone else. I did not get the impression this trainer was saying my way or the highway. I did get the impression that you wanted help. If you know how to teach these things, then why get a trainer? Maybe your dog needs to learn certain things and not be so dependent on you? a confused dog in training at times isn't a bad thing at all.
Honestly...? I got the trainer because Iam not willing to purchase a complete agility course and she owns one. She will not let me use the course without a foundations class first. Pretty much I want the equipment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by release the hounds View Post
Not rewarding for great eye contact is not a bad thing, when eye contact is NOT what you were asking for. Sometimes my dogs give me great heeling, sometimes the best in the world, but they already know it, i'm not teaching it, and i did not ask for it so they don't get rewarded for it. It's not even an issue and it certainly doesn't affect their heeling for when I do ask for it.
I understand what your saying. My thought was reward the dog for som'thing she does know so she would not get discouraged and disengage from me.



Quote:
Originally Posted by release the hounds View Post
If I teach a dog to bark and he decides to bark when he wants, he won't get rewarded. Or if i'm working on a down and the dog sits, a perfect sit, why would I reward that? Dogs need to learn that a command and behavior is what is wanted. Not just freely doing certain things. They have to learn that when asking for attention, is when they give it, and don't stop giving it till another command is given or the exercise is ended.

Maybe your dog doesn't understand free shaping yet, but how will she ever if you never do it? or you're always directing? or if sitting there and staring will get her a reward? why would she try anything else? Maybe your trainer can see that and is trying to break that bad, bad habit now?


We do freeshaping games. But we are not at the point of the dog walking around and touching things. Keep in mind this dog has 8 plus years of being corrected (not by me) for offering random behaviors. Its an uphill battle.

The trainer wanted that staring/watching behavior and we practiced that first. She wants the dogs job to be "paying attention to me" until shes given an instruction. So thats what the dog was doing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by release the hounds View Post
If you don't trust the trainer then don't go. But if she's qualified to help, and you believe she is a capable trainer then why not let her do what you're paying her to do?
She is qualified and capable. But the exercise could have been done at home and not while I was paying her by the minute. I felt like it was being dragged out. I feel she chose a method that would take longer. And I can't figure out why...certainly the obstacles are not freeshaped. The groundwork isn't either.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 07-29-2009, 03:53 PM
Criosphynx Criosphynx is offline
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,242
Default

you know what, I'm beginning to wonder if I have simply chosen the wrong dog to pursure this with.

Chili and Tippy are very clicker savy. They will walk around and touch walls and objects and totally understand that the behavior gets the click.

Emma has the energy and the athletic side, but not the learned skills and a huge history of reinforcement in behaviors not compatable with agility (i've noticed other behaviors that don't work for this stuff too)
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 07-29-2009, 04:17 PM
corgipower's Avatar
corgipower corgipower is offline
Tweleve Enthusiest
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: here
Posts: 8,233
Default

Training should be fun for you and your dog. If it isn't, it's not worth it. Yea, there are bad days, there's frustration, but it sounds like this is more than just a bad day. Regardless of the dog, if you are that unhappy with the instruction, then you should look for another trainer. Sometimes it's just a matter of compatibility.
__________________
The slayer of all things happy since 2010
Kibble feeder since 1973

Extreme owner of four herding dogs

puzzles, poetry and so much more ~ Doggy Puzzles created by me
sleep!!!
My dog Votes!
proud member of the MUMS 2009 7th place team CISRA 2009 1st place team SUMS 2009 2nd place team
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 07-29-2009, 04:38 PM
release the hounds release the hounds is offline
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Midwest
Posts: 4,107
Default

Quote:
Honestly...? I got the trainer because Iam not willing to purchase a complete agility course and she owns one. She will not let me use the course without a foundations class first. Pretty much I want the equipment.
It is an expensive hobby isn't it? If that's all you want, then I agree, the pressure isn't worth it. I think you'll be able to find somebody else in the area, probably a bit further away, but maybe some likeminded people could get together and pool resources. It's how how good clubs start. Just an idea.

Quote:
I understand what your saying. My thought was reward the dog for som'thing she does know so she would not get discouraged and disengage from me.
It's always difficult to know when to reinforce or when to wait something out in the transition stages of training. I just thought maybe the trainer saw something we can't at the time. but when you say this....

Quote:
She wants the dogs job to be "paying attention to me" until shes given an instruction. So thats what the dog was doing.
I'm not sure why you wouldn't be able to direct your dog to the mat. It seems like that's what she wants anyway?

Quote:
She is qualified and capable. But the exercise could have been done at home and not while I was paying her by the minute. I felt like it was being dragged out. I feel she chose a method that would take longer. And I can't figure out why..
I know the feeling. I don't do agility, but other sports and felt like that at times, but now that i'm more experienced and doing some of the decoy work myself and having titled some dogs now, I can see the work I thought was pointless actually paid huge dividends in the end. I thought I was just being soaked for more money. Now that I'm no longer a paying customer and I watch others in the position I was in and I can see the frustration on their faces and body language at times.

I know some are out there to get that extra buck, but some really do have a plan and the dogs best interest at heart. One of my greatest mentors didn't give two shits about the handlers or their feelings. You had to have tough tough skin to deal with him, but he did teach me a ton, and always had the dogs interest in mind, your feelings didn't count. Telling the two apart is difficult for sure. and still others will tell you everything you want to hear and rush the dog thru training so you can see "results" only to have them fall apart when it counts. I've seen all sorts, and what happens to the handlers and dogs.

She should be able to answer a question about why she wants you to work on that exercise, if not, that would be a flag to me. Either she can't answer it, or if she can't and won't and doesn't feel she needs to explain things, then it won't get any easier later.

I just hate to see people give up too quickly, cause jumping around and every trainer has a different style and always changing styles, no matter what venue you train in will confuse a dog, and with this confusion, learning usually doesn't take place like it can in other situations. Confusion sometimes can be expected, but creating it usually isn't beneficial in these circumstances.

But in the end if you can't see eye to eye, or be comfortable training it won't be good for you or your dog. Good luck
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 08-02-2009, 03:38 PM
DaVinci DaVinci is offline
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Northern Minnesota
Posts: 412
Default

I think you know what is best for bth you and your dog. I would quit the class and try to find a diferent trainer. It sounds to me like you and this trainer are totally different.
__________________



People grow through experience if they meet life honestly and courageously. This is how character is built.

Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 08-04-2009, 01:46 AM
Criosphynx Criosphynx is offline
Top Dog
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,242
Default

I have contacted a couple of the trainers that MP provided for me (thanks again) and everyone is full or I can't get my schedual to work for them.

The trainer never replied to my email form july 18th I double checked to make sure it really was sent etc etc.

Telling me to not hesitate to email and then ignoring my email for two weeks is too unproffesional for me. Iam not going to continue with her.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 08-04-2009, 06:49 AM
corgipower's Avatar
corgipower corgipower is offline
Tweleve Enthusiest
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: here
Posts: 8,233
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Criosphynx View Post
Telling me to not hesitate to email and then ignoring my email for two weeks is too unproffesional for me. Iam not going to continue with her.
While I agree that for her to ignore your email is unprofessional, keep in mind that sometimes emails float around in cyberspace and get lost and don't end up being delivered to the recipient. I've received emails that were actually sent a month or two before they landed in my inbox.
__________________
The slayer of all things happy since 2010
Kibble feeder since 1973

Extreme owner of four herding dogs

puzzles, poetry and so much more ~ Doggy Puzzles created by me
sleep!!!
My dog Votes!
proud member of the MUMS 2009 7th place team CISRA 2009 1st place team SUMS 2009 2nd place team
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:25 AM.


1997-2013 Chazhound Dog Site