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  #31  
Old 07-25-2009, 09:38 PM
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FoxyWench FoxyWench is offline
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ufi...

ive come to the strong conclusion that either you dont read, dont understand or just dont care about actual responces...

you come across as rather highly opinionated (in a NOT good way) and truth be told, kinda "holier than thou".
you dont care that people have good reasons...
you belive that the only dogs worthy of life are those that "WORK", (as a side note, again my frou frou dogs catch rate is higher than your WORKIGN dogs from what youve said AND shes a WORKING service dog, belive me, theres no job harder than being a service dog!) but to you shes a frou frou inside dog, shes small and she doesnt "hunt", at least to your standards...(which thus far seems to be the only job you consider real work for a dog.)
you seem like you want to go back to the days of lynching dogs in trees...what about all those "lazy obese people" with their frou frou spayed and neutered dogs? mabe we should just lynch them along with their dogs since there obviously no use to ANYONE...

as someone who is OBESE...yes...im fat...very much so...you have a problem with fat people?...
id like to say that i am extreemly active.
i work outdoors, i was a zoo keeper, i AM a dog walker, i work rennaisance faires (anyone thats been to one can tell you, while fun, thats MILES AND MILES AND MILES of walking on uneaven ground, loose rocks thro0ugh mud and horse poop and unlike those who just come for the fun of it, we dont get regular breaks, we work our butts of and we dont stop.
last weekend i worked through a weekend with second degree sunburns, today it was on a little over 3 hours of sleep.
i spend most of my time outdoors...
i hulahoop, do yoga, pilates, i spin poi (working on fire) and i belly dance...

at 300lbs, i probably do more outside in one day than you do all week in terms of strenuous phyiscal excersize...
do you RUN after your dogs when they hunt?!

as it stands thus far ive found every one of your posts degreading...
you have a problem with people who spay and neuter
you have a problem with people who have their dogs live inside (because that makes them frou frou)
you have a problem with people who take their dog to the vet
you have a problem with people who dont simply "let nature take its course" so the dog dies from something that was easily treatable
you have a problem with people who dont "cull the heard" by again "letting nature take its course" (oh wait, we should all go back to the days when they got rid of the useless ones (like my frou frou service dog who can catch chipmonks UP trees) by hanging them from a tree... as a side note, not sure what its like where your from but that has NEVER been a common culling practice in any of the coutries ive heard of. letting them be "free" drowning, poisen, a club to the skull, dog fights, thrown to the bulls, yes...never lynched from a tree!
you have a problem with fat people, (and all fat people are lazy)
and you have a HUGE problem with anyone that doesnt feel the same way about the way dogs should live as you do..

of course...
if they disagree with your veiws they MUST be animal rights activists.

yup, thats me...a fat lazy activist...*rolls eyes*

now please excuse me, im off to give my horribly, genetically deformed, naturally unworthy, frou frou dogs a snuggle before i put my lazy fat butt in bed...
gotta be well rested for tomorrow...where ill take my lazy fat butt back to the 350 acre farm the ren fair is being held on and spend my day walking the miles and miles of trails selling roses to support wildlife rehabilitation...

oh wait...
wildlife rehab is against everything you strive for...yup, gotta go deprive natural selection of yet another orphaned soul.
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  #32  
Old 07-26-2009, 01:59 AM
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My fru Fru dog live inside. Does not sleep on my bed and is on expensive medication to keep her alive.

But guess what? She is one of the best agility beagles in the province right now, and she hunts Cyotes on a regular basis. She sees a vet regularly. But by your standards, because she needs meds she should be killed, even tho she is an amazing hunter.

Yes she is spayed. Hunting with a pack dog who is intact is a nightmare
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  #33  
Old 07-26-2009, 05:58 AM
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Oh, where to start...

To the OP- I do understand partially where you're coming from. I think it's really important for dogs who are bred for a specific purpose to do what they were bred to do. OR to at least be able to perform some type of equivalent.

For example, maybe I don't have access to artic weather or a real sled, but maybe I can get my dog into weight pull.

I also would not have access to live reindeer for my dog to herd, but maybe I can find a good place to test out herding instinct- like a farm with sheep or geese.

I also think it's important for a dog to be structurally sound and a good representation of its breed- hence why I am for dog shows.

HOWEVER- there are many perfectly good companion dogs that don't need a job other then being someone's pet. In my opinion, a dog doesn't need to be bred for hunting in order to qualify as an animal that deserves love.

And I think that's really where the disconnect is. Most of us here love our dogs like we would children and family. It sounds like you love your dogs because they are an extension of your desire to hunt.

There is nothing wrong with that. In fact, that's how many breeds started. But, there is no need to bash people who don't have working/hunting breeds.

As to the spay/neuter thing- I think in some cases it's not necessary. And personally, I don't think it should be done until the dog is fully mature. However, there are people out there who just don't want to deal with the hassle of having an intact dog. Especially if they aren't planning on breeding that dog.

Again, just to reiterate, just because a dog is not breeding stock does not mean that it's not worthy of love or life. My dog Abby is not breeding stock by any means. She's a rescue. However, she's a good girl and a sweet girl, and deserves to be treated well. We don't need her to be a pit dog.

As for the issues that come with spaying, if the owner is active, the dog will be active. If the owner is sedentary, then so will the dog be. That is no reason to call people who spay or neuter fat or obese.

To be honest, it doesn't make any sense, other then you just wanting to insult people because they have different views then you do. That would be like me calling all hunters jerks, or something. Very juvenile.

As for hunting dogs not being spayed or neutered back in the day, well, I'm not sure they knew how to do that back then. But I'd say if they could have they would have. I can't imagine that a female hound in heat would do anyone any good while on a big game hunt. In fact, it sounds like it would be detrimental and distracting, which would cause the other dogs to possibly injure themselves or worse.
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  #34  
Old 07-26-2009, 07:35 AM
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I clearly need to work on being offended more easily.
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  #35  
Old 07-26-2009, 08:21 AM
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I am discussing only breeding dogs, which remain not spayed or neutered and pass their genes to the next generations. All spayed or neutered dogs are "dead" for the population, although many of their owners treat them well and their life is a happy one. During recent decades most of formerly working (physically and mentally capable dogs) breeds declined, because they lost vigor, endurance and even desire to perform physically. This is because they live idle life, without the original work to a purpose. This is why I said that way of life determines how the breed would change in a few generations. Performance is maintained because of selection, natural or artificial one. Unfortunately, there are many dog owners, who keep a good breed, but they cannot find what to do with the dog, except grooming, taking to vet, nails clipping and showing. Instead of activities with the dog, people focus attention on dog's body. Big, or small, but they all are toy breeds. This is a fact of our way of life. We involved for hours, playing with all kind of gadgets. May be we do not need to know much about happiness of our dogs, except petting, fattening and taking them to vets. However, this is why it becomes more and more difficult to buy a good, healthy and intelligent puppy.
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  #36  
Old 07-26-2009, 08:47 AM
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genetically what you say makes no sense. If I take a great working (talking genetic potential) dog and make it into a happy pet... and it then breeds. The offspring will be the same whether the parent actually hunts or not.

Now if you want to talk about dogs who have no instinct breeding.. that is a different story..
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  #37  
Old 07-26-2009, 09:00 AM
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Do i read this right? YOur against spay and neuter? 70 million dogs in the USa...you admit that it helps with the overpopulation problem but your against it? I can't even get my mind around that. I have had a total hysterectomy. Yes it hurt but would i go through it to stop the suffering of babies..you betcha. I wouldnt' ask my animal to go through anything that i woudln't. Have you seen a pup die of parvo? Have you seen the inside of a kill shelter? All i can say to your post is OMG>
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  #38  
Old 07-26-2009, 09:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BostonBanker View Post
I clearly need to work on being offended more easily.
LOL Me too!!
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  #39  
Old 07-26-2009, 09:19 AM
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Im done! Ok Ufimych, get off your frikin high horse.
You may not agree with the way I raise my dogs, but you don't have to be an a*shole about it.

Im not fat, neither is my dog. shes in PERFECT physical condition and so am I. Shes spayed, but that doesn't mean ANYTHING and that certainly doesn't mean that shes worth less in ANY WAY then your dogs.
for one thing, if she gets bitten by a snake, SHE GOES TO THE FRIKIN VET!
thats right.. i take my dog to the vet. and Im not even making $700 a puppy off of her, unlike you!
I don't agree with the way you raise your dogs, I wouldn't buy a puppy from you if someone paid me to. but, Im trying to stay open minded to the way you breed/own dogs, at first I judged you harshly, but im trying to be open to different ways of doing things, but why should i?! why should I respect you and the way you keep your dogs, If you can't even respect the way I keep mine?

With you, its like hunting dogs are worth something and the rest are just trash.
lol so what your dogs kill animals? My dog does that 2! lol she killed a squirrel this afternoon, BIG WHOOP.

What about service dogs? Police dogs? Search and Rescue? do you think they are worth nothing also? if so, you need a WAKE UP CALL

Sure, my dog doesn't hunt or w/e it is your dogs go. and she doesn't live outside and she may not be imported or have the perfect pedigree.
but shes MY BEST FRIEND, and im sure that more than you can say about your dogs.
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  #40  
Old 07-26-2009, 10:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ufimych View Post
I am discussing only breeding dogs, which remain not spayed or neutered and pass their genes to the next generations. All spayed or neutered dogs are "dead" for the population, although many of their owners treat them well and their life is a happy one. During recent decades most of formerly working (physically and mentally capable dogs) breeds declined, because they lost vigor, endurance and even desire to perform physically. This is because they live idle life, without the original work to a purpose. This is why I said that way of life determines how the breed would change in a few generations. Performance is maintained because of selection, natural or artificial one. Unfortunately, there are many dog owners, who keep a good breed, but they cannot find what to do with the dog, except grooming, taking to vet, nails clipping and showing. Instead of activities with the dog, people focus attention on dog's body. Big, or small, but they all are toy breeds. This is a fact of our way of life. We involved for hours, playing with all kind of gadgets. May be we do not need to know much about happiness of our dogs, except petting, fattening and taking them to vets. However, this is why it becomes more and more difficult to buy a good, healthy and intelligent puppy.
Some of the more unfortunately expressed opinions aside, there are, in fairness, some good points in this post, even though they aren't, perhaps, presented as tactfully as they might be.

If we look at too many breeds in recent decades, objectively, there IS a definite drop-off in working ability -- as well as health and structural soundness! Part of that IS in our fascination with looks and conformation and shunting what dogs DO to the wayside.

Do our sled dogs absolutely have to run the Iditarod? Do our Australian Shepherds need to spend their days running across the backs of sheep? Dachshunds chase badgers through underground tunnels? English Mastiffs run down poachers? Bulldogs harry bulls? Of course not, but, for the sake of their health and the health of the breed, they NEED to be physically and mentally capable.

There are good alternative activities that utilize and develop our dogs' innate abilities -- the ones that are an integral part of who they ARE.

On our own forum, look at the difference in, say Laurelin's Papillons, who, although they're "spoiled house dogs" spend a great deal of time being DOGS, running, exercising, exploring outdoors, taking part in activities like agility . . . Or Foxy's Little Nekkid Dogs -- now, how many people would ever imagine that Chinese Cresteds are capable vermin hunters? Well, if we (the human dog owning population in general ) paid half as much attention to "sound and capable" as we do to "pretty," dogs would be, overall, much healthier, sounder, and have longer and better lives.

While the OP may be a bit over the top and less than adept at effective verbal communications, he's got some points that most of us here can agree with, and have expressed ourselves.
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