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Old 07-24-2009, 09:49 PM
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Lilavati Lilavati is offline
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I would comment, but I'm trying give up getting involved in incipent train wrecks for the summer.

To the OP: if you are interested on the views of people on this board on these topics, there are many VERY long, very, ah, sprited threads on the topic.
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Old 07-24-2009, 10:16 PM
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Ah, come on Lil . . . where's the fun in that?

And every forum should have their very own pet ARista. Just be sure they're spayed or neutered.
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Old 07-24-2009, 10:58 PM
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Ares was neutered for my convenience. Morgan was spayed for her benefit. Her heat cycles were incredibly difficult for her and the choices were to continue to watch her suffer twice a year, hormone therapy for a problem we couldn't even fully diagnose or spay. Spay was the best of those options for her.

Morgan also was inbred, and it's not something that's common or ideal. If she hadn't had a hormone imbalance though, she would've been an amazing dog. She was inbred on one of the best corgi lines there is.

For the OP, I very much dislike comparing how we treat out animals to how we act as humans. My pets are not my equals.
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Old 07-24-2009, 11:28 PM
ufimych ufimych is offline
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Thank all for responses. Most are good, thanks again. This is a good theme for the Colbert Report! Now, lawyers graduated from prestigious American colleges are busy with such nonsense as animal rights. How you dare spay and neuter animals? Do you do it on their behalf? Some AR are here, guardians, for a while. AR are going to take all you animals away from you.
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Old 07-24-2009, 11:56 PM
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I don't know if the op was aimed at people who anthropomorphize their animals?

I've never really had that issue. My animals are treated like animals... I second corgipower... they aren't my equals. To me, that means so long as the animals themselves aren't chronically unhappy, they're fine. I don't think it really matters long term if they're fixed or not. There seems to be arguements for both sides. As far as linebreeding, again, I don't seen anything wrong.

Both my dog and my tomcat are unfixed.

The cat "misted" a wall once. I say misted because I've seen/smelled a true spray and this was no where near as intense. That was only once. It's been interesting to see him mature- he's a year and a bit and he's built like a brick ****house. We call him "bull-pussy" because he's built like a bulldog. Super thick neck, jowls, the works. He'll be neutered soon, but honestly, I'm never fixing a male cat early ever again. Such a difference in physique. But do I think the cat has an opinion? No.
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Old 07-25-2009, 12:59 AM
husky hijinx husky hijinx is offline
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Originally Posted by ufimych View Post
There are striking bias and hypocrisy in views established in our society, which most of us comfortably ignore.
1) Inbreeding versus out breeding. Many of us claim that our dogs are like family members and some treat them very seriously like family members. At the same time, we like to watch dog shows and show breeders use inbreeding (incest) to improve their strains for the show purposes. At the same time, we do not approve, for example, incest and close breeding among humans. We prefer out breed ourselves. Inbreeding is detrimental and contradicts basic laws of genetics and especially population genetics. Nevertheless, it remains a cornerstone in show breeding practices.
2) Spay-neuter programs. With a few exceptions, veterinarians and pet loving public are brainwashed by animal rightist ideology and trumpet about benefits of spaying and neutering pets. Why nobody want to spay or neuter humans? Especially now, when human population growth is obviously out of control and threatens the very survival of humankind in not so remote future? Remember about global warming.
I can summarize said above that majority of our beloved pets, so-called "family members", are spayed and neutered family members. More over, too many of them are genetically degenerated by incest breeding "family members". This is unwanted by animals and a savage and cruel surgery. Did you ever met an animal rightist, who spayed and neutered their some of his human family members? I agree that it helps overpopulation control. Nevertheless, it contradicts the very idea of loving dogs like family members. I have never had and never will have a neutered dog or a cat. If I do not want to breed them, I simply isolated them for a certain period, when they are ready. Natural, intact animals, are far more interesting to keep and interact with. If we are saerious about love to animals, why we want to take so much control over their way of life and happiness? Would some of us, being castrated, be perfectly happy? Did anyone do it by his own choice?
Every breed of purebred dogs is inbred. My bitch is line bred, her sire's health testing was perfect as well as her mothers, if a breeder knows what they are doing and does not over use line breeding I don't see a problem.

People can and do use birth control, we also have a way of preventing unwanted pregnancy without resorting to surgical procedures or chemical/hormonal injections and pills. Unfortunately we can't just toss our dogs a rubber and say go have some fun but stay safe. Humans also have self control. Animals don't. I don't see my husband howling, pacing, fighting with other men when I'm around them or skipping meals when I'm ovulating. Sorry but human and dog emotional interest in reproduction is completely different. Dogs do not have an emotional attachment to sex the way we do, their only attachment to it is instinctive.

I neutered my dog partly for my own convenience and partly so I didn't have to worry about him passing god knows what on to puppies. He did come from a puppy mill before he came to live with us. Maybe it was mean, but I hardly think leaving a dog intact and possibly able to produce puppies who may have crippling inheritable diseases is less mean, so yes my male who is not fit to bred is neutered. Since I do have an intact female who is still just a puppy, I also did not want to opps and wind up with a pregnant puppy.

I also find this "Natural, intact animals, are far more interesting to keep and interact with." to be far from the truth. My altered dog is far less moody than my unaltered bitch. He is the same as before except he is less interested in her. It may be easy for others with breeds that don't work or do so singularly or in pairs or smaller groups but Siberians are working dogs that work very closely in numbers, do you know what would happen with a mixed team of all unaltered dogs and bitches if there is a bitch in season? Dogs could fight, get injured, tangled in the lines, so much stuff can go wrong. So for some people, it's not only for convenience but saftey reasons as well.
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Old 07-25-2009, 01:28 AM
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suthrnladi suthrnladi is offline
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Ummmm, what Hijinx said...... By the way just to keep it fun...Should some humans be spayed or neutered? H--- yea! I won't tell you what I do for a living, but suffice it to say, I've seen the results of not doing so.
As far as treating my animals like family members....well, I love my animals, and they are much more willing to forgive and forget than my human family, but they are pets none the less, and are usually treated that way. Are all my animals altered?? Except for Shane the 12 week old Boxer, yep. For my convince, and to save lots of fights. I had my bitch spayed, after she came in heat, and the dog next door, climbed the fence and literally tore the door off the shed we had her locked in, after he had ripped a four inch gash in my son's unaltered male dog's shoulder and left several puncture wounds in his neck and back. Will shane be altered? yep, soon as he's old enough. I have only seen good behavior changes in my altered animals. Cats tend to stay home more.
I was altered at a young age for my health's sake, but since my hubby had already been neutered (to avoid more kids) it really wasn't a big deal, I don't see any change in myself or him. I encouraged my daughters to have themselves "fixed" as soon as they finished thier families, one has, one hasn't.
I think I'm getting around to PErsonal choice here.
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Old 07-25-2009, 01:35 AM
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Fran101 Fran101 is offline
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Everything I wanted to say has basically been said.
but im just going to add. im not the guardian of my dog, im her owner

that is all

Disclaimer: I work for Trupanion and love it/our policy! But I do not speak for the company or as the company.
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Old 07-25-2009, 04:53 AM
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lakotasong lakotasong is offline
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Just a note since a couple of you responded to my use of the term guardian:

Currently, 5,946,902 Americans and Canadians are officially recognized as "Animal Guardians."

The following named city codes, county ordinances, and state legislation are now updated to offer the designation of citizens and professionals as "animal guardians."

2 0 0 8
Beverly Hills, California (December, 2008)

2 0 0 7
San Jose, Calif. (June 19, 2007)

2 0 0 6
Imperial Beach, California (July 19, 2006)
Santa Clara County, California (April 25, 2006)

2 0 0 5
Bloomington, Indiana (December 21, 2005)

2 0 0 4
St. Louis, Missouri (August 9, 2004)
Albany, California (June 7, 2004)
Windsor, Ontario Canada (May 10, 2004)
Wanaque, New Jersey (May 10, 2004)

2 0 0 3
Sebastopol, California (December, 2003)
Marin County, California (All 28 Cities) (December, 2003)
San Francisco, California (January 13, 2003)
Woodstock, NY

2 0 0 2
Amherst, Massachusetts (April 24, 2002)
Menomonee Falls, Wisconsin (March 11, 2002)

2 0 0 1
Sherwood, Arkansas (September 24, 2001)
Rhode Island (statewide) (July 5, 2001)
West Hollywood, California (February 19, 2001)
Berkeley, California (February 27, 2001)

2 0 0 0
Boulder, Colo. (July 12, 2000)

source: IDA's The Guardian Campaign
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Old 07-25-2009, 06:21 AM
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elegy elegy is offline
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steve'll be neutered for his benefit since he's got an undescended testicle and those have a scary high tendency to turn cancerous, being as testicles aren't designed to be stored at that high temperature. if he weren't cryptorchid, i'd be seriously considering asking his breeder if i could keep him intact for the time being, since i've had zero problems with him being so thus far. *shrug*
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