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  #41  
Old 07-13-2009, 09:14 PM
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Romy Romy is offline
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I don't want to get in the breeding part of it, but there are definitely health benefits for dogs spending a lot of time outside. Not just dogs, but humans too.

The thing that makes an outside dog a bad thing, is that most people automatically assume it is left outside, alone, with little to no human interaction.

But if you have an active sporting/farmer owner who spends his/her life mostly outdoors, it becomes a healthy and fulfilling lifestyle for the dog as well.

One of my friends went to a canine reproduction workshop, taking a whole boatload of notes. One thing that kept showing up over and over and over again is the importance of natural sunlight. Lack of natural sunlight was linked strongly to calcium absorption problems, small litter sizes, low birth weight, higher incidence of c section, infertility in males and females, etc. The lecturer went on a rant about how many show kennel folks keep their dogs indoors to keep sunlight from bleaching/damaging the coat, cleanliness, etc. and how it had a huge negative impact on the overall health and reproduction of the dogs.

For what it's worth, the longest lived irish wolfhound known lived to be 18 years old. That is more than twice the average life expectancy of the breed. He was born and died in Alaska. He never, ever once stepped foot inside the house. Not even when it was -60 F out. His family tried and tried to bring him in but he refused. He is a very famous dog among IW folks, and he also belonged to Strider's ob trainer's aunt.

I'm intrigued by the lifespan of ufimych's dogs, because that is very high for a sight hound. Even if we don't agree with his breeding practices, I do believe he has something to offer us that *gasp* maybe we don't know yet.

If I remember correctly, aren't your dogs imports also? I think you posted something about having to import salukis because you had a hard time finding dogs in the US the way you liked them, but maybe I am remembering wrong.
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  #42  
Old 07-13-2009, 10:04 PM
mom2dogs mom2dogs is offline
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Would love to see more pictures! I think people who are jumping to conclusions should, I don't know, ask? He seems willing to talk. Everyone has different ways of caring for their dogs, bitches, puppies. I might not choose to whelp my litter in the way the OP does, but I also don't agree with the way many people here would call reputable, care for them or raise them either. Like I said, more pictures are a must and I look forward to reading more posts by you ufimych.

btw Romy, he mentioned in his first post three of his Salukis are imports (one from Russia, two from Kazakhstan). If someone is breeding solely for the money, I don't think they would take the time to research breeders/folks in another country and bring the lines over here. JMO. Also strongly agree that most outdoors dogs *I have* been around, have been much healthy AND better looking compared to those living a sheltered life and are hardly out in the sunlight. I certainly notice a difference in my own bitch's pigment when she is deprived of the sun. . . proof enough for me, even if it seems cosmetic (for lack of a better word).
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  #43  
Old 07-13-2009, 10:47 PM
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FoxyWench FoxyWench is offline
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my probelm is not with the outside dogs thing
my probelm is 10 puppies born in a wooden box, NO vet care for even a check up, they do their own vacinations (which can be bad even when handled with the utmost care, bad batches are not uncommon even for vets and theres no way to know for certain), these pups are also way too young for flea/tick protection and fleas are a huge killer of young puppies...
the COMPLETE lack of ANY kind of vet interaction has me utterly skeeved...

not all dogs do better outside all the time...
cresites for example will BURN and need sunscreen (even with slow exposure the breed is sun sensitive...) white dogs are sun sentivie in general...

theres just something about the entire situation and responce to the questions asked that is not sitting right...
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  #44  
Old 07-13-2009, 10:59 PM
Psyfalcon Psyfalcon is offline
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Salukis are NOT a primitive breed.

They are an ancient breed, but they are highly refined to be coursers. I've never seen anywhere, that they were to fend for themselves at any point. They are not double coated, and they appear to have the twice yearly heat cycle of domesticated dogs. True primitive breeds are double coat (Dingo, Carolina, NGSD) and a yearly cycle to assure that the young are born during favorable conditions.

There is merit in breeding for dogs to have fewer birthing and mothering problems, but not at the expense of forgoing any vet care, especially under the presumption or excuse that it is a primitive breed. Especially when that dog is not a primitive breed in the first place.
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  #45  
Old 07-14-2009, 05:22 AM
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Different people have different ways . I have never seen a saluki but from what has been described they do not seem suited to a life lived entirely outside. But regardless of whether saluki's are suited to living outside all the time no puppies should be born outside if the breeder wants to give them the best start in life. That is the part I find appalling especially since the puppies are receiving no veterinary care.
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  #46  
Old 07-14-2009, 07:03 AM
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LauraLeigh LauraLeigh is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FoxyWench View Post
my probelm is not with the outside dogs thing
my probelm is 10 puppies born in a wooden box, NO vet care for even a check up, they do their own vacinations (which can be bad even when handled with the utmost care, bad batches are not uncommon even for vets and theres no way to know for certain), these pups are also way too young for flea/tick protection and fleas are a huge killer of young puppies...
the COMPLETE lack of ANY kind of vet interaction has me utterly skeeved...

not all dogs do better outside all the time...
cresites for example will BURN and need sunscreen (even with slow exposure the breed is sun sensitive...) white dogs are sun sentivie in general...

theres just something about the entire situation and responce to the questions asked that is not sitting right...
Many, many breeders do their own shots.... I did, and every mentor I had did as well. I never did vet care unless needed when my pups whelped, again neither did any of my mentors, I did have check ups from the vet on my JRTs before they went to their new homes, but not when we had hounds.

Iam going to share something on here that will likely get me flamed, but really, I honestly don't care... We had a great working hound named,ironically,Jack.. she (yes, Jack was a girl) hated the house, and lived outside, sleeping with the goats.. We tried bringing her in, but she paced and dug the crap out of the door, we bred her at 3 years of age, she whelped a litter of 6 pups outside... now I was home full time then, I watched her but never interfered, she whelped fine, those pups were raised in the goat barn and outside until they went to homes at 9 weeks of age. They were loved and socialised and were healthy, fat pups... In NS we have a huge flea problem, but they never had an issue, oddly enough I had more trouble with my house dogs, than I ever had with Jack.

Jack passed a couple of years back, when we moved to Ontario, Jack moved in with good friends who would be able to work her, of the pups, who would be near 17 now 4 are still alive, 1 was Star, who lived a pampered life with my Father in Law and she passed last fall, 1 whom was with Jeffs Uncle passedover the Winter. Of the 4 still alive, 2 were great workers, 2 were great couch potatoes....

Maybe it was a terrible thing, and it makes me a horrible person, but for me the proof is in the pups..... We had healthy, hardworkers, and trouble free long lived hounds... Even the JRTs which are a hardy breed, have more issues than we everhad with our hounds, gods honest truth? Other than getting frail, and maybe deaf when past about 15, I don't remember any of those hounds having any other issues... and I was from a small town, we'd have heard about it...

We (A collective We, all the hunters in the area) bred strictly workers, not giving a crap about conformation, we mixed "types" and had a beagle"ish" looking hound, that worked rabbit like a dream, had virtually no health issues, and lived to ripe old ages, many by the foot of their owners long after they were able to hunt....
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  #47  
Old 07-14-2009, 07:05 AM
ufimych ufimych is offline
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This is because you keep intensive care dog breed. Others do not have to go your way. A real good working dog is a tough and healthy dog; a dog for able bodied people who spend much active time outdoors. I use service of holistic vet clinic. My vet told me not to vaccinate puppies as long as they feed on mother's milk. I do not see any reason to vaste money on vets, when my dogs are healthy. Only emergency can send me to a vet. My dogs recover snake bites, no fatalities so far. Copperheads are no problem. They still avoided rattlers. In their home country, if the dog got sick, it either dies, or survives. No vets. Natural selection takes care about weak and unfit. This is why they live a long and healthy life. Of course, hunting is inherently dangerous, sometimes, even to people, but this is a part of hunting. There are talks about developing "jelly dog" breed. Genetic engeneering makes it possible. These dogs will go in several colors, with expressive beautiful eyes, but they have to be carried from here to there. For those who keep themselves busy with dog's body, it would be a dream breed. I prefer spending active time with my dogs; they are my assistants, wild things between me and the wild. This is how dogs originated in the first place, "covenant of the wild" was made about 15 thousands years ago. Now, the covenant of the wild is broken. Dogs are deprived of freedom, degenerated and became incapacitated to perform even most natural functions without veterinary assistance. This is one reason why I am most attracted to primitive aboriginal breeds, the most natural and the least spoiled ones .
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  #48  
Old 07-14-2009, 07:18 AM
ufimych ufimych is offline
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If I live without doctors, do I make a mistake? Yes, I do not use any drugs and do not have my physician. Why should I? Why dogs must need a vet, if everything is fine? If I have an emergency problem, accidental serious injury, or dangerous infection, poisoning, etc., I need a doctor. I do not expect my dogs have a chronic health problems. This is a feature of aboriginal dogs - they are healthy and intelligent dogs. It is so nice to keep a dog for enjoying active time with him.
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  #49  
Old 07-14-2009, 07:28 AM
ufimych ufimych is offline
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It is not one of the most primitive, but it is still primitive: hard to train, shyness of unknown and artificial, stubborness, intolerance of physical punishment, one estrus per year and a few other wild traits. Besides, they have been developed long, long ago by boith natural selection to fit life with nomadic people and for the function of hunting. There are other sighthounds, which are cultured (not primitive breeds). For example, the Greyhound, the Whippet and the Scottish Deerhound. Primitive breeds range from the most wild, like Dingo, to most refined, like the Saluki and related breeds and sheep guarding dogs. However, they all share many wild traits in their behavior and physiology.
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  #50  
Old 07-14-2009, 08:48 AM
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I only have one question, are your dogs vaccinated for rabies? In the state of VA, it is ILLEGAL not to have your dogs vaccinated for rabies, and you can only get this vaccination through a veterinarian (although I suppose you could get it illegally if you knew how).

VA's wildlife has a very high rabies infection rate, especially raccoons, so I would consider this vaccination at least, extremely important in this state.
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