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  #11  
Old 06-04-2009, 07:58 AM
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Originally Posted by antipunt1 View Post
I know this is kind of off-topic, but could you give me some advice of how to do this? Wanta likes to avoid me when I reach for her, it's practically impossible now for me to re-leash her at the park. This is only a recent phenomenon, I think she's learned that when I pick her up, it's the end of fun time.
Grab her collar and give her a treat and release her to play. Repeat that a few times, always grabbing slowly and from the side/underneath. Then work on grabbing from over her head. Then work on grabbing faster. Always with a treat, always releasing her to play afterwards. Then grab her collar, leash her, give her a treat, unleash her and let her play.
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  #12  
Old 06-04-2009, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by corgipower View Post
Grab her collar and give her a treat and release her to play. Repeat that a few times, always grabbing slowly and from the side/underneath. Then work on grabbing from over her head. Then work on grabbing faster. Always with a treat, always releasing her to play afterwards. Then grab her collar, leash her, give her a treat, unleash her and let her play.
Thx CP
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  #13  
Old 06-04-2009, 01:17 PM
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Make sure you grab her and THEN treat. It sounds like a "No duh" kind of thing, but if you try to treat first or do it simultaneously, she'll learn really quickly to grab the treat and duck out of reach.
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  #14  
Old 06-04-2009, 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by CaliTerp07 View Post
Make sure you grab her and THEN treat. It sounds like a "No duh" kind of thing, but if you try to treat first or do it simultaneously, she'll learn really quickly to grab the treat and duck out of reach.
OMG, Wanta has -totally- been doing this to me (in the past)
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  #15  
Old 06-05-2009, 02:14 PM
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ive noticed many dogs, particularly smaller dogs, will have 1 of 2 issues with leashing
#1 issue is "hey this is fun" and they turn it into a game, you try to grab them, they run away, this of oten followed by play bowing as every time you get close enough they bounce off again.

#2 is fear of things over their head, fight or flight kicks in and they bolt.

the method thats worked best for me is to take a small peice of treat out, and show it to the dog, let it have one or 2 to get a taste.
then with purpose and without too much thought reach down and try to clip the leash on/grab the collar...if the dog bounces away...STOP, with the treat in hand cross your arms and say no, turning away helps with the realy bouncy ones, you want to use your body language to essentially say "im not playing"
once the dog comes close, offer treat again, this time not giving the treat unless the dog allows you to touch the collar/leash it, the moment that leash is on or you have the collar tell the dog its good and treat.

i woudl practice this in a low stimulation area, a back yard, heck even in the house.

ruby knows that in order to get the leash clipped she HAS to sit, it took practice because shed get so exiceted shed be all bouncy around, so i started reinforcing sit, then id practice the ignore untill you get it right and she got it in about 15 mins, she realized that if she kept moving away she didnt get leashed and if she wasnt leashed she wasnt getting that treat.

be repetiitive but keep sessions short.

Practicing sit/stays also helps with dogs that like to avoid leash, least it has for me.
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  #16  
Old 06-05-2009, 02:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FoxyWench View Post
be repetiitive but keep sessions short.
Thx for the input. Recently, I've been trying something similar to what you suggested. I do the command + pick her up + treat maneuver. I think I've basically become the disciplining unfun Mom that the child tries to avoid

She's probably associated being picked up with the end of fun time, and yes, like you said, the end of a 'game'. I'll try teach her that getting picked up ain't so bad

(this is especially apparent because she lets my Mom pick her up )
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  #17  
Old 06-05-2009, 06:56 PM
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Excuse my verbosity, but I'm a bit confused.

Why is it that when I flash the leash/harness, Wanta runs away from me even then? I thought the leash was associated with good things (dog park and walks). There is nothing bad about it, and I'm pretty sure she's intelligent enough at this point to associate the leash to the walks/park (simple Pavlovian conditioning)

So why does she keep dodging me? It's kind of frustrating to me, because I really don't understand it (logically nor emotionally). It's hard to take my dog to the park (essentially her equivalent of Disneyland) when she keeps dodging me. I tried slow pick up. Fast pick up. Treat bribery (been practicing the above post's procedures -all night- yesterday)/leash flashing. I got upset today and just decided not to go. All this does is set me up for another "Lady at the park" incident where I'm mocked because my dog won't leave when I say it's time to go (I've been foolishly up to now just chasing her for like 10 minutes before we leave the park, and chasing her for around 2 minutes until I corner her to leash her up -to- go... it's downright embarrassing).

People who know me relatively well will realize that I'm not mad -at- my dog. I'm not that silly. Also I know the whole 'but a dog doesn't "know"' type thing, but the thing is I'm just kind of disheartened (this lady at the park incident admittedly was the thing that started getting me short on temper). Going into 'confession-mode': there just doesn't seem to be any notion of sacrifice/loyalty/love in this relationship, and sometimes, it's just the opposite (where she's incredibly selfish (I'm saying this line in a 'matter of fact' kind of way, I know she was programmed via animalistic-behavior)). Also, I (rationally) expect too much from Wanta probably (taking into account that dogs have no concept of right/wrong), but psychologically, that's what happens when you love someone. I raised her/loved her/did everything right theoretically/stressed over her, and now, she won't even come when she -knows- she's supposed to (the rationale here is that clearly, she 'knows' -I- want her to...but she chooses not to because the more pleasurable-choice is probably to ignore me).

I've never even -dreamed- of laying a finger on Wanta for rebuking, and I struggled for the kindest ways possible to teach her what it was that she had to know. I took scars on my hands to teach her bite-inhibition and searched frantically for social-partners/parks so that she would grow up well. And yet of the simplest commands, Wanta sits there eying me, waiting for that treat, so she can snatch it and ditch. If I have no treat? Ditch. (and no, I have not been training her with visible treats, she figured this out on her own).

And ultimately, I can hear that Alpha-male-theorist Lady at the Park laughing at my failure, telling me of how this was all because "I let Wanta become boss", whereas all she has to do is rebuke her dog. Man, I can't fire guns with empty ammo. I'm literally so ashamed at myself (and saddened by Wanta), that I can't go to the park today.

AUGH, I embarrass myself with this post. Thank you/sorry if you read this in its entirety, but I'm getting so tired, and I don't know what to do
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Last edited by antipunt1; 06-05-2009 at 07:15 PM.
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  #18  
Old 06-05-2009, 07:12 PM
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First thing you do is take a deep breath. Then another.

The whole loyalty in dogs idea is very much overrated. Dogs are selfish and opportunistic. Dogs do what is the most rewarding for them.

Here's how it typically happens - owner reaches for dog, dog bolts, owner chases dog, dog decides bolting is fun because it engages owner in a game of chase. Owner catches dog and restrains dog (physically or with a leash), dog decides being caught isn't fun. Or, owner catches dog and rewards dog for being caught, dog decides running away is good because he was just rewarded for it.

Dogs love a good game of chase. But they don't tend to care if they are the chaser or the chasee. What I do is I run away from the dog, and then reward heavily when the dog is coming to me. While the dog is on the way to me, I cheer him on and I might get down on the ground too. When he gets to me we have a party - lots of treats, toys, petting, playing, praising. Then we do it again.
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  #19  
Old 06-05-2009, 07:22 PM
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Thx CP. I enjoyed your post because you didn't try to sugarcoat anything, and just said it as it was.

I need to adjust my expectations, but most importantly, figure out a -system-. I think perhaps, I need to start thinking of Wanta as a business-associate rather than a friend (or 'something' like that).

Quote:
Or, owner catches dog and rewards dog for being caught, dog decides running away is good because he was just rewarded for it.
(Crap AM I DOING THIS?! man I'm going to BE SO ***** IF I WAS)

Quote:
What I do is I run away from the dog, and then reward heavily when the dog is coming to me. While the dog is on the way to me, I cheer him on and I might get down on the ground too. When he gets to me we have a party - lots of treats, toys, petting, playing, praising. Then we do it again.
I have to admit, that the 'diversity' of responses and 'should-dos' are confusing the bejeezus out of me; especially in this case, because they're contradictory!

Though I will add, given your advice, I'm going to stop this -right away- until further notice! :

Quote:
Recently, I've been trying something similar to what you suggested. I do the command + pick her up + treat maneuver.
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  #20  
Old 06-05-2009, 07:25 PM
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antipunt, quit being so hard on yourself!!

You ask great questions and you do a wonderful job of applying the advice that's given. It takes time and there are always mistakes along the way. It's a rather large learning curve.
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