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  #11  
Old 05-26-2009, 07:34 PM
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antipunt1 antipunt1 is offline
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thanks,
and yes, I do think it was important you mentioned this.

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Originally Posted by corgipower View Post
Praise and petting is rewarding for some dogs but not for all.
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  #12  
Old 05-27-2009, 08:45 AM
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Try not to get angry when she doesn't give correct responses to your cues. Being angry or punishing will produce a dog who really doesn't want to come. You never want to associate anything bad with coming. She is not saying "screw you." She is not knowing that she should do the "right" thing and obey you, but choosing not to. Dogs are amoral and don't relate to our sense of right and wrong. This is all thinking that is reserved for humans. She is simply and purely motivated to go out the door and see something more than she is motivated to stay behind the door. Dogs will do what works best for them, what gives them what they want. It's just how they are. She is just untrained. That's all there is to it.

Put a leash on her before you open the door. Keep working on sit in all kinds of locations and contexts. Gradually increase duration before she gets a treat. Don't let her see the treat first. Try luring her into the sit with an empty hand, (hand signal) then get the treat from various hiding places...some in your pocket, a fanny pack behind your back, some near you on a table or whatever. Be sure to work in your release word, meaning, now you can get up from your sit. Get it in before she's apt to break the sit or sit/stay and work up the duration. The learning of that release word is imperative because otherwise she learns to get up or run anytime she wants and your sit is then ineffective. The release word should be worked in to anything you teach her to let her know that she doesn't have to do that thing anymore...whatever she's doing. Say you're working on formal heeling and now you want to tell her she's finished with that and can walk more freely, let her know that heeling is over. ("okay" or "free" or "release"...whatever release word you use)

Now take her by the door and have her sit. Open the door a crack. If she gets up, close the door. Don't say a word. Try again. Keep on trying until she figures it out that she needs to sit and wait. Get your release word in (don't make her wait too long at first) and open the door and let her out, but be sure to hang onto her leash. As she gets onto sitting and waiting for her release word in order to get the reward of going outside, gradually try opening the door a little wider, but be ready to close it fast before she runs out. Don't let her hurt herself by running hard into it or banging her head. If this is apt to happen, use your body to block her first....pivet around, step in front of her. Don't scold or give commands if you want this to become a default behavior for her. Practice this several very short sessions a day and use different doors. You can teach her to sit/wait until released if you practice. Make it easy for her to succeed at first by not asking for too long a wait.

Eventually you can start varying your own body position and location. When she starts getting really good at it, you can step out a foot or so on the porch while she waits, then a few feet more away. Or you can stand behind her, off to the side, facing away from her, facing toward her and eventually clear out in the yard. (by this time, you'll need a second person to hold the leash.) You need to mix it all up so she doesn't learn that it is only when you stand a certain way or when other conditions are a very specific and the same way that she has to sit/wait for release. Dogs don't generalize behavior all that well so by varying these things, it helps them to learn to do a behavior in any situation. You can try this at a friend's house if possible so if you're ever visiting someone with your dog, she will be able to apply this skill at their house too.

If you can't have a fence around your yard, then something should be done to lessen the odds that if she does get out, that she'll run into the street. That takes a tremendous amount of training to teach boundaries and it's still not fool proof. I don't like electric under ground fences, but it would be better than nothing.

Another thing you can keep working on is a reliable recall. Be sure and not use your cue word unless she's already coming to you until she is reliable. There are threads on this skill and other good info online. (Clicker Solutions) is one place where there are lots of training articles.

Life rewards are things the dog wants right then and there. If the dog wants to go outside badly, he's not going to care much about a treat or a pat. If she wants playtime with you or affection, she may not be as interested in a treat. So, try to see what it is she wants at given times and use those things as reinforcers for behavior you want. She does something you want first, then gets what she wants. If she's not doing something you want, you need to break it down into smaller segments and reward for those baby steps and once those baby steps are good, withold the reward and ask for a little more and reward for that. You can also capture behavior...when you see the dog doing something you like, even when you didn't elicit it, be sure to reinforce. Try setting the context or location up so that she is more apt to succeed. The more reinforcement instances she gets for good behavior, the quicker she'll learn.

Treats, toys and other things she likes are also great rewards for certain things. It's important to vary the rewards to keep her interest high. Use higher value treats or toys only after using lower value treats within a block of time, not the other way around. Use higher value treats for more difficult tasks and reserve the mediocre things for simpler things that your dog can do easily and likes to do more. Those are just a few tips I can think of for the time being.
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Last edited by Doberluv; 05-27-2009 at 08:58 AM.
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  #13  
Old 05-27-2009, 01:26 PM
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antipunt1 antipunt1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doberluv View Post
The learning of that release word is imperative because otherwise she learns to get up or run anytime she wants and your sit is then ineffective.
Ah, dang it. I knew I forgot -something-

Quote:
Now take her by the door and have her sit. Open the door a crack. If she gets up, close the door. Don't say a word. Try again. Keep on trying until she figures it out that she needs to sit and wait. Get your release word in (don't make her wait too long at first) and open the door and let her out, but be sure to hang onto her leash. As she gets onto sitting and waiting for her release word in order to get the reward of going outside, gradually try opening the door a little wider, but be ready to close it fast before she runs out. Don't let her hurt herself by running hard into it or banging her head. If this is apt to happen, use your body to block her first....pivet around, step in front of her. Don't scold or give commands if you want this to become a default behavior for her. Practice this several very short sessions a day and use different doors. You can teach her to sit/wait until released if you practice. Make it easy for her to succeed at first by not asking for too long a wait.

You need to mix it all up so she doesn't learn that it is only when you stand a certain way or when other conditions are a very specific and the same way that she has to sit/wait for release. Dogs don't generalize behavior all that well so by varying these things, it helps them to learn to do a behavior in any situation.

That takes a tremendous amount of training to teach boundaries and it's still not fool proof.

Life rewards are things the dog wants right then and there. If the dog wants to go outside badly, he's not going to care much about a treat or a pat. If she wants playtime with you or affection, she may not be as interested in a treat. So, try to see what it is she wants at given times and use those things as reinforcers for behavior you want. She does something you want first, then gets what she wants.

You can also capture behavior...when you see the dog doing something you like, even when you didn't elicit it, be sure to reinforce.

Treats, toys and other things she likes are also great rewards for certain things. It's important to vary the rewards to keep her interest high. Use higher value treats or toys only after using lower value treats within a block of time, not the other way around. Use higher value treats for more difficult tasks and reserve the mediocre things for simpler things that your dog can do easily and likes to do more.
Here is a dancing banana in return. -THANKS- for this useful advice! (and thx to everyone else too!)
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  #14  
Old 05-27-2009, 02:19 PM
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Ya know, we haven't had any Wanta pics in a while.
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  #15  
Old 05-27-2009, 09:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corgipower View Post
Ya know, we haven't had any Wanta pics in a while.
she basically looks -exactly- the same as before (really)

http://image52.webshots.com/552/3/78...5WJAgvY_fs.jpg

http://image72.webshots.com/172/7/27...5FrBCCE_fs.jpg

there we go
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  #16  
Old 05-27-2009, 09:16 PM
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I can't open those links. It says I need a password.
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  #17  
Old 05-28-2009, 08:58 AM
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You're welcome Antipunt. That is basically how I taught my dogs to be "polite" at the door. I didn't use a leash because I have no road right outside and they weren't apt to run off. But it's pretty much what I did. I do recommend too, that you get a good, solid recall on your dog because there's still always a chance that she may bolt anyhow. You need a plan B. LOL. If you need tips on that, see what you can find by doing a search here. If you can't find anything, be sure to post again.
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"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty."

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  #18  
Old 05-28-2009, 09:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by antipunt1 View Post
she basically looks -exactly- the same as before (really)

http://image52.webshots.com/552/3/78...5WJAgvY_fs.jpg

http://image72.webshots.com/172/7/27...5FrBCCE_fs.jpg

there we go
The links don't work.
__________________
The slayer of all things happy since 2010
Kibble feeder since 1973

Extreme owner of four herding dogs

puzzles, poetry and so much more ~ Doggy Puzzles created by me
sleep!!!
My dog Votes!
proud member of the MUMS 2009 7th place team CISRA 2009 1st place team SUMS 2009 2nd place team
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  #19  
Old 05-28-2009, 01:25 PM
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antipunt1 antipunt1 is offline
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Quote:
I can't open those links. It says I need a password.
Quote:
The links don't work.
WAT
*excuse me for a moment*
Augh, it's cause of webshots. That's it, I'm switching to photobucket

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...1/Wantamug.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...1/Wantasit.jpg

Quote:
I do recommend too, that you get a good, solid recall on your dog because there's still always a chance that she may bolt anyhow
Couldn't agree more. Hence: the dodge cars on the road game; the video-game with 1-life and no 'continues'

Quote:
If you can't find anything, be sure to post again
I certainly do abuse my resources here. Thank ye
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Age: 10 months so far
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  #20  
Old 05-28-2009, 01:47 PM
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I hope you don't mind ~ Reposted the links as images. She is seriously adorable!!



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Kibble feeder since 1973

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puzzles, poetry and so much more ~ Doggy Puzzles created by me
sleep!!!
My dog Votes!
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