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Old 05-25-2009, 11:45 PM
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antipunt1 antipunt1 is offline
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Default Bolting and General Disobedience

Hi Chazhound, been a while since my last question. But it seems that I've run into an issue again

This only started happening recently, but Wanta is starting to become increasingly 'disobedient'. She is so in a couple of specific ways that I'll list out to make it less vague

1. She bolts out of the house onto the street whenever given the chance (in the past, she would just kind of walk out the door and back in. Now she bolts straight out of any crack leading to the outdoors). Why she does this -now- I totally do not know, but when she does, she ignores my commands and chases bikes/cars/runs on the street. It's incredibly dangerous and despite my angry commands/yells, she just keeps running around like it's a game. The game is apparently called 'dodge the car that will kill you'

It always kind of bothered me when dogs did this. I mean, what exactly is she trying to say in doggie-language: "screw this prison, I'm outta here?...". Augh, this statement is kind of emo, but seriously, does she not like living here?... (it's even sadder that she wasn't like this at all when she was younger. She was much more 'attached')

2. She is starting to manipulate my 'sit' command. Whenever I ask her to sit, it seems that she is totally expecting the treat that comes after. As a result, I can kind of sense the gleam in her eye saying (OK...here comes the treat...then I bolt!). Thus, the command is virtually useless. For example, when she bolts out onto the street, if I say the sit command she may half-fall-for-it the first time, but then she reacts after seeing I'm not giving her a treat and bolts off again.

When I caught her I was furious, and gave her a 10 minute time out (I was mad at her for ignoring my commands and angry at myself for allowing this incident to occur more than once/lack of training her/whatnot). The time-out was the only thing I could think of as a 'deterrent' because I am aware she probably doesn't know that running on the street is 'dangerous' and 'wrong'. But then again...-maybe- she does..

My rational mind is telling me Wanta is focused on 'play'...SO focused in fact, that she completely ignores the concept of 'boundaries' and 'danger'. I also realize that my sit command is being kind of a gimmick that doesn't at all serve its primary purpose: keeping Wanta safe in case of an accident.

So yeah, help would be -great- Chazhound because I'm failing again
So... alternative training methods? Obedience class? Or do most dogs bolt out of houses whenever given the chance (though my instinct is telling me: no).

Thanks

PS: Maybe Wanta is going through her 'rebellious-stage', though that would suggest that other dogs would've acted similarly at her age
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  #2  
Old 05-25-2009, 11:59 PM
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AllieMackie AllieMackie is offline
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Yup, Wanta is a teenager. Welcome to the fun.

Why is she gaining access to the road? Is someone letting her out the door? You have to be extremely careful, especially in the rebellious stage.

Be vigilant with training. It often takes more than normal in this stage, but continue being consistent and firm. And take deep breaths. :P
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Old 05-26-2009, 12:18 AM
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Yes Wanta is at that wonderfull teenage stage, gotta love it.

As you know her dashing out the door and into traffic is very dangerous espically for a dog of her size.
I would suggest giving her more excerise and time outside on leash, or take her to a fenced in park where she can run around and be a dog.
To help with the door dashing, teach her she cannot go out the door unless you tell her, start with teaching her to wait at the door, open the door just a crack and reward her for maintaing position, a sit, down, stand whatever you want. Slowly make the opening in the door wider, but always keep her on leash. If she does break her wait, close the door so she cant get out.

By giving her many opotunities to play outside and teaching her to wait untill realeased to go out the door should help your problem.

Any dog can be taught to stay in the house even when the door is wide open, it just takes time.
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Old 05-26-2009, 12:50 AM
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Quote:
Why is she gaining access to the road? Is someone letting her out the door?
we accidentally opened the front door with her semi-nearby. but we were unprepared, because she never 'bolted' in the past. We had no idea she would have such an urge, it was like she was -waiting for it-

Quote:
Be vigilant with training. It often takes more than normal in this stage,
but continue being consistent and firm. And take deep breaths. :P
OK thanks. I was unaware that this was a 'stage' for dogs. Well, I was 'aware', but not -aware- you know what I mean? Like that it was happening -now-

Quote:
Yes Wanta is at that wonderfull teenage stage, gotta love it
man, if you're BOTH saying it, but MUST be true

Quote:
By giving her many opotunities to play outside and teaching her to wait untill realeased to go out the door should help your problem.
sounds a bit advanced for me, but thx, I'll just keep at it.

Quote:
Any dog can be taught to stay in the house even when the door is wide open, it just takes time.
unfortunately, my only method of 'teaching' Wanta -anything- is via food-bribery or deterrents (time outs).

And we all know how well that 'sit' command is working at the moment.
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Old 05-26-2009, 08:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by antipunt1 View Post
unfortunately, my only method of 'teaching' Wanta -anything- is via food-bribery or deterrents (time outs).

And we all know how well that 'sit' command is working at the moment.
For sitting at the door, life rewards are often better than food. She wants to go out and play. So when she sits, reward her by opening the door and taking her out (be sure to use a release word before she gets up and steps out the door). Have her on a long line so she can play but she can't run off.
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Old 05-26-2009, 11:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corgipower View Post
For sitting at the door, life rewards are often better than food. She wants to go out and play. So when she sits, reward her by opening the door and taking her out (be sure to use a release word before she gets up and steps out the door). Have her on a long line so she can play but she can't run off.
This.

The action they want IS the reward. Finn has learned to sit and watch me until the door is open and I cue him to "go". It's not 100%, he has times where he wants to squeeze out the door... but he's six months, and for six months, he's got it down pretty solid. I wanted to train it before the terrible teens. Hope he retains it.

Same principle applies to the "be a tree" method of teaching loose-leash walking. When the dog pulls, stop. When they walk on a loose leash, they get to walk, which is the reward in itself.
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  #7  
Old 05-26-2009, 02:52 PM
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(Sorry, this is totally off topic, but AllieMackie...your dog is absolutely adorable!!!!!
Every time I read one of your posts I laugh at that little comical picture of him with his mouth wide open...too cute!!)
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Old 05-26-2009, 03:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by antipunt1 View Post

unfortunately, my only method of 'teaching' Wanta -anything- is via food-bribery or deterrents (time outs).
I just want to touch on this. You should NEVER use bribery to teach dogs. I use food as rewards but I never bribe (also known as luring.. though you can bribe with out luring too)

But in this case life rewards are good. Maybe a food reward AND a life reward as you go through the teenage stages.
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Old 05-26-2009, 03:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corgipower View Post
For sitting at the door, life rewards are often better than food.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AllieMackie View Post
This.

The action they want IS the reward.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dekka View Post
I just want to touch on this. You should NEVER use bribery to teach dogs. I use food as rewards but I never bribe (also known as luring.. though you can bribe with out luring too)

But in this case life rewards are good. Maybe a food reward AND a life reward as you go through the teenage stages.
you guys are all touching on a very valuable subject (thank you). I could use some advice however. So far I've read that 'life rewards' means they get what they are waiting for, etc. Any tips on how to employ 'life rewards' as opposed to 'food-rewards/bribery?'. I've tried to 'hide' the treat behind my back, etc., but I suspect that she's totally starting to expect it when I say 'sit' or 'come here' (though important to mention, it's not like I wave the food in front of me or in her vision, I always keep it hidden). How do I reward her if I don't give her food? (AKA how do I increase the probabilty of a desirable outcome without food. What is the positive affect. A pat on the head? A back scratch? A 'good girl!'?) Please advise
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Old 05-26-2009, 04:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by antipunt1 View Post
you guys are all touching on a very valuable subject (thank you). I could use some advice however. So far I've read that 'life rewards' means they get what they are waiting for, etc. Any tips on how to employ 'life rewards' as opposed to 'food-rewards/bribery?'. I've tried to 'hide' the treat behind my back, etc., but I suspect that she's totally starting to expect it when I say 'sit' or 'come here' (though important to mention, it's not like I wave the food in front of me or in her vision, I always keep it hidden). How do I reward her if I don't give her food? (AKA how do I increase the probabilty of a desirable outcome without food. What is the positive affect. A pat on the head? A back scratch? A 'good girl!'?) Please advise
Rewards are anything the dog finds enjoyable ~ food, toys, praise, petting, going outside, being allowed to walk, etc. Things like going outside, being allowed to continue on a walk, being allowed on the couch are "life rewards". Praise and petting is rewarding for some dogs but not for all.

You can use food rewards without using bribery. Keep the treats on shelves around the house so you always have easy access to them and then you can go get one when you need to reward something. If treats are in a pocket, don't take out a treat until after the behavior is given. A clicker can help bridge the gap while you reach for a treat ~ you still only have about a second to deliver the treat, but the click will mark the behavior while you get that treat out.

Also using a variable reward schedule will help.
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