Question for Herding dog owners

[Bodi's Mom]

One of my neighbors has a 4 year old neutered, male, Bearded Collie - he is so sweet - a typical Beardy. They wanted to get a rescue to add to their canine family - so they recently brought home a 3 year old neutered, male Corgi. They have had him for about three weeks now, and all these pups seem to do is run around the yard (about one acre) nipping at each others heels. Can two herding dogs live together peacefully? My neighbors are wondering if they made a good decision. The Beardy seems to be getting chased and herded more than the Corgi - generally, the minute one of them moves, the other is on a mission to herd.

[Laurelin]

Yep, they can live peacefully with each other. We had multiple herders for 12 years just fine. I'd guess if the nipping really bothered one of the dogs, the other would let them know. None of my herders have been huge dog nippers though Trey occasionally will slip a nip to the paps but they seem to ignore him. He only tried that once or twice with Nikki then she let him know that was NOT going to keep happening.

[Dekka]

Is the beardy having fun? Herding dogs seem to have a play style all their own. Sometimes you are the herder.. sometimes you are the herdie.

[corgipower]

Originally Posted by Bodi's Mom

They have had him for about three weeks now, and all these pups seem to do is run around the yard (about one acre) nipping at each others heels. Can two herding dogs live together peacefully?

What makes them think they aren't living together peacefully?

Having four herding dogs, I can definitely say that when herding dogs play, they engage in quite a bit of herding behaviors with each other - chasing, nipping, cutting each other off from the front, etc.

The Beardy seems to be getting chased and herded more than the Corgi

I think I'd be more worried if it was the other way around...would suggest perhaps that it wasn't a real corgi.

[Tankstar]

I think they can live fine together as long as they both enjoy that type of play. Herders seem to have their own play, round up dogs, bark bark bark, nip, bark some more and chase lol. its funny to see Blaze at the dog park "herding" up his group of buddies. I never let him escalate to much on dogs we dont know, as his play can be annoying to other dogs, but with his buddies, they seem to enjoy all the barking and nipping he does to them

[Bodi's Mom]

The Beardy is definitely the "herdie" - he is and was the submissive one. The Corgi is the nipper, the chaser, the barker, the growler, the "herder" - he seems to instigate most of the time. I think the owners are concerned that their original dog (The Beardy) is somewhat being bullied. Info from you folks definitely helps - especially as you describe the play habits of herders. I'll take this info back to my neighbors. Thanks you guys!

[Lizmo]

Yes, herding dogs can and do live peacefully with the right owners.

My male used to have a huge problem with barking/growling/bitting the other dogs heels if they ran or started to bark if left outside unatended. It would look like play -tail up, play bow while doing it- but he was most certainly not playing. With correction, he doesn't do it much at all now, but he had to have alot of correction and training (words like "HEY, cut that out, NO!" that meant "Stop that crap NOW"

If the Corgi keeps doing that, I'd suggest to your neighbors that they put the Corgi in the last place in 'pack' order. What that means is the Corgi is made to take the position below the owners AND the Beardie. Alot like a NILIF program, and the Beardie gets everything first to show the Corgi that he is the new dog here, and should get treated like it.

[~Tucker&Me~]

Originally Posted by Lizmo

If the Corgi keeps doing that, I'd suggest to your neighbors that they put the Corgi in the last place in 'pack' order. What that means is the Corgi is made to take the position below the owners AND the Beardie. Alot like a NILIF program, and the Beardie gets everything first to show the Corgi that he is the new dog here, and should get treated like it.

I would be hesitant to do this... If the corgi is naturally more dominant than the beardie, than upsetting that order will, IMO, cause problems. By trying to manipulate the hierarchy, it is very probable that the corgi would feel the need to prove that he in fact, is the dominant one. I think by doing that the beardie would be subject to bullying. As long as the corgi isn't full out bullying him, and the beardie doesn't seem distressed, I see no reason to intervene.

Just my 2 cents

~Tucker

[corgipower]

If the beardie is being overwhelmed by the corgi, I would suggest removing the corgi from the situation when he gets worked up. Put him in a pen or a crate, let him calm down, then let them play again. As soon as the corgi gets worked up again, he gets removed. If he plays nice, he can stay out and play Otherwise he can't.

I don't know much about beardies. I do know my corgis play in the same way and it is just play and they chase the mal's in the same way and the mals chase back and they all enjoy it. There's an occasional scuff if someone crosses a line they shouldn't cross, but they work it out with no problems...(except of course Ares and Nyx...)

Keep in mind that corgis do tend to demand that they be respected, and it could be that the beardie is showing submissive behaviors because he's reading the corgi in such a way that he understands it's his best response. The reason Tyr and Ares can be together is because Tyr throws a lot of submissive behaviors at Ares.

[Laurelin]

I also wouldn't intervene unless the beardie seemed bothered by it. I've noticed dogs often work things out between them by themselves.

One related question I have is why everyone always assumes the ankle biting is related to herding behaviors. Is it usually? I have known a couple papillons that play in that manner as well. Summer actually nips at other dog's heels more than any herding breed we've ever had. Though she's never tried it with humans like Trey has.