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Old 04-08-2009, 05:50 PM
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Dreeza Dreeza is offline
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Default Peeing/crying in crate...

Posting for my friend again...

4 month old lab/great dane mix...appeared to be potty trained for about a week; slept in his crate fine & never went to the bathroom in it for the 1st few weeks after she got him...

Now he seems to have regressed!! I still really think its an attention thing, cause he proves over & over that he is capable of holding his pee AND, he typically does so while she is gone AND they have been to the vet...haven't had a full work up, but the vet didnt think he needed to.

Apparently last night he cried all night AND peed 3 times!!! Course each time he did, she got up & cleaned it up --> so therefore...ATTENTION!!! He also usually only has accidents when other people are over & we are studying or something...therefore he isnt getting attn paid to him...and he also does it when she is on the phone a lot.

He is getting exercise, and yesterday apparently was playing in the dog park with other dogs for like an hour during the late afternoon & was just absolutely pooped...so its not like he isnt getting out.

I really don't know what to tell her...she pays attn to him...but I mean, he needs to learn he can't get attn 24/7!!! What should she do???
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Old 04-08-2009, 08:13 PM
sprintime sprintime is offline
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Have to agree it does sound like an attention getting trick but since he wasn't like this before something must have happened to make the dog afraid or hate the crate. If your friend can get hold of a professional trainer or prefferably a dog behaviourist she should talk it over with them and see what they think. Classes would be beneficial also, might help the pup learn manners and give him confidence.
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Old 04-08-2009, 10:04 PM
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Have to agree it does sound like an attention getting trick but since he wasn't like this before something must have happened to make the dog afraid or hate the crate. If your friend can get hold of a professional trainer or prefferably a dog behaviourist she should talk it over with them and see what they think. Classes would be beneficial also, might help the pup learn manners and give him confidence.
he doesnt really seem to hate the crate though...he goes in it totally fine...yesterday I saw him walk in it to retrieve a toy that got in there somehow with no issue at all. My dog HATED his crate...you could put a steak in there & he wouldn't walk in it...

I think its a little early to see a behaviorist/professional trainer though...that seems a little extreme...
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Old 04-08-2009, 10:07 PM
PoodleMommy PoodleMommy is offline
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Is he peeing more than usual during the day as well?

He could have a health issue (UTI, etc) and needing to pee is making him cry to get out.
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Old 04-08-2009, 10:31 PM
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Is he peeing more than usual during the day as well?

He could have a health issue (UTI, etc) and needing to pee is making him cry to get out.

Nope, he is not...he only seems to pee more often when she is home. While we are class, he is fine being in the crate for 5 or so hours. He is definitely capable of holding it.
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Old 04-09-2009, 02:00 AM
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Why is he locked in the crate while she is home? My dog was only locked in her crate at night or when i left the house. She learned REAL quick that if she "went" in her crate, she was the one that got stuck with it. But i never did lock her in when i was home. Is he only doing it in the crate? Or the house as well?
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Old 04-09-2009, 09:29 AM
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I don't think it's an attention getting behavior because dogs don't think like that. That would be way too complex a thought process. A dog would have to have the ability to move forward and backward through time, make a plan, think ahead and know or wonder about what results a string of conditions would cause. A dog would have to know what affect pee has on his owner...would have to know the internal workings of his owner's mind and have a strong, human-like sense of empathy which is not thought to be the case with dogs. This is beyond a dog's cognitive abilities. No, I totally don't think it's about attention. It is more likely caused by stress. Regressions in any training are absolutely normal anyhow. I would recommend that she takes the dog out more frequently, ridiculously frequently...every 45 minutes to an hour and do more than praise when he goes outside...give a high value treat every time immediately upon his finishing.

Is this exercise and attention she gives happening in one lump of time? Shorter, but frequent walks, outings, romping, obedience practice would be more effective than one or two larger segments.

Cleaning it up right away and thoroughly is imperative. Being in the crate with pee will cause the dog to lose that desire to stay clean. They get use to it and can develop "dirty puppy syndrome" where they don't mind peeing where they hang out. So, she is right to clean it up. Is there any chance that the bedding still smells of urine? Regular washing is not apt to remove the scent completely. An enzymatic cleaner such as Nature's Miracle would need to be used and even that may not be a sure fire thing. Fresh, new bedding that hasn't been peed on would be an idea.

And of course, making certain there is no bladder infection would be high on the list of things to check.
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Old 04-09-2009, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Doberluv View Post
I don't think it's an attention getting behavior because dogs don't think like that. That would be way too complex a thought process. A dog would have to have the ability to move forward and backward through time, make a plan, think ahead and know or wonder about what results a string of conditions would cause. A dog would have to know what affect pee has on his owner...would have to know the internal workings of his owner's mind and have a strong, human-like sense of empathy which is not thought to be the case with dogs. This is beyond a dog's cognitive abilities. No, I totally don't think it's about attention. It is more likely caused by stress. Regressions in any training are absolutely normal anyhow. I would recommend that she takes the dog out more frequently, ridiculously frequently...every 45 minutes to an hour and do more than praise when he goes outside...give a high value treat every time immediately upon his finishing.

Is this exercise and attention she gives happening in one lump of time? Shorter, but frequent walks, outings, romping, obedience practice would be more effective than one or two larger segments.

Cleaning it up right away and thoroughly is imperative. Being in the crate with pee will cause the dog to lose that desire to stay clean. They get use to it and can develop "dirty puppy syndrome" where they don't mind peeing where they hang out. So, she is right to clean it up. Is there any chance that the bedding still smells of urine? Regular washing is not apt to remove the scent completely. An enzymatic cleaner such as Nature's Miracle would need to be used and even that may not be a sure fire thing. Fresh, new bedding that hasn't been peed on would be an idea.

And of course, making certain there is no bladder infection would be high on the list of things to check.


Thanks sooo much!!! I will definitely pass this on to her. I do think she does give the exercise in larger lumps, so I'll let her know to break it up (and let her know about the dirty puppy thing!!!)

Also, Jaden, this is at night...she doesn't put him in the crate when she is home...

Doberluv, should she be waking up during the night to take him out??

He actually doesn't have any bedding...she started crate training him without it (i think thats what she read to do somewhere), and when she tried adding it, he peed on it like 5 times in a row, so she figured he wasn't ready for it yet.

She is a VERY good cleaner, but I'm not sure if she is using stuff specifically to remove the 'pee' odor, so I'll double check with that as well.
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Old 04-09-2009, 11:29 AM
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If she has his crate next to her own bed, she should hear if he wakes up and whines. If he's been sleeping and then wakes up, it is likely he has to go out. I wouldn't wake the pup up to take him out at night though.

The crying can definitely be about attention because being alone or lonely causes that stress and they miss their families. And puppies do need to learn that they can't always get what they want. LOL. So, if she's pretty sure he doesn't have to go pee (a hard call sometimes)...she should try to open the crate door when he is not whining, but instead wait for a lull.

It is unusual for a pup to pee in his crate unless he's developed that tolerance for the messy conditions. Is she staying with him when she takes him out to pee....to make sure he goes and to make sure he's reinforced when he does? Is the crate just large enough for him to stretch out, stand up and turn around? If it's much bigger than that, sometimes pups will choose one end for sleeping and one end for peeing. Some bigger breed dogs take a long time to mature and it's still well within the average time it takes to potty train a big dog IMO. But it is important that she does everything possible to prevent more indoor peeing. The more times this happens, the longer it will take to train. So she must be sure to really, really beef up the reinforcement when he goes outside and to take him out so often that he has no pee in him to go inside. Constant supervision when loose in the house. If he still manages to go indoors, she should probably re-check with her vet or another vet about the possibility of a bladder infection. Was his ability to hold it for 5 hours something he did a while ago... or has he been holding it like that very recently also? Anyhow, given time and plenty of diligence, he should be potty trained within the next few months. It varies, of course. My Doberman took the longest of any dog I've ever had....he was about 10 months until he was reliable. They say average is around 6 months....give or take. My boy Chihuahua only took a few weeks. He was around 13-14 weeks of age or so. But with my Doberman, I was not careful enough and he wouldn't squat or do any of the indicative behaviors preceeding a pee. LOL. No circling, no sniffing, no looking around. He'd be walking across the living room, stop, just stand like he always stood and peed. It was awful. I should have taken him out even more often than I did.
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Old 04-09-2009, 01:30 PM
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Ah okay. So he cries thru thru the night then? When you said she was on the phone i figured she had him locked in there during the day
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