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  #21  
Old 02-15-2009, 06:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Renee750il View Post

Narrow minded morons like him would have us all having a choice of retrievers, or retrievers. Thanks, but no thanks. I'd rather be dogless.


Actually, the guy did put in a good word for APBTs.....
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Sally--8 yr old pit bull mix
Jack--6 yr old Labrador
Sadie & Runt--12 yr old calico DSHs
Pickles & Kiwi--3 yr old white winged parakeets
Yoda--1 yr old Quaker parrot
Solo--12 yr old Senegal parrot
Sheena--Quarter Horse--3/24/86-6/23/11--Rest Easy Sweet Girl~




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Last edited by sillysally; 02-15-2009 at 07:03 AM.
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  #22  
Old 02-15-2009, 06:32 AM
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Interesting.

I agree with the guy in the 1st half of the blog - there is NO need in this day and age to breed a dog which attacks strangers on their OWN initiative.

That is called a liability, and you can NOT control who owns a fila, so surely in the breeds best interests fila devotees/breeders should be considering this if they do not want them to become a banned breed.

Like he states:

"Every dog that bites means less freedoms for responsible dog owners"

Now, do I think they should be banned? No, I think fila enthusiasts should be taking the care that pitbull owners do to ensure they dogs get a true representation and breeding for sound temperament.

He is NOT slamming ALL filas... he is targetting those breeders who breed for AGGRESSIVE responses to strangers.

At least, it seems that way in the 1st half.. the update is a little more extreme...
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"Dogs are our link to paradise. They do not know jealousy or discontent. To sit with a dog on a hillside on a glorious afternoon is to be back in Eden, where doing nothing wasn't boring, it was peace."


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  #23  
Old 02-15-2009, 07:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Dizzy View Post
Interesting.

I agree with the guy in the 1st half of the blog - there is NO need in this day and age to breed a dog which attacks strangers on their OWN initiative.........No, I think fila enthusiasts should be taking the care that pitbull owners do to ensure they dogs get a true representation and breeding for sound temperament.He is NOT slamming.....
I agree with nearly all that you say. But some may see a distinction that is not at all relevant.

Pitbulls that are "true representations" are not human aggressive. The author argues that at least one faction feels that Filas must be human aggressive in order to be Filas, and that this somehow justifies their breeding.

Allowing the unregulated breeding of purposely human aggressive dogs is absolutely irresponsible in modern society. I do not see how it matters if doing so preserves "true representations" or not. A vicious dog is a vicious dog.

The most ignorant response is from those who insist on the "slippery slope" argument for everything. That is, "If we do not allow everyone to purposely breed powerful dogs for human aggression...then we soon only be allowed to own golden retrievers with their teeth removed."

That is not just ignorant, its nuts. Somehow these people are willing to depend on their neighbors to have LOTS of sense when it comes to breeding vicious animals, and non at all when it comes to understanding the difference between a hair trigger aggressive deadly weapon with "issues" and a GSD when it comes to regulation.

We cannot own tigers, but that does hasn't threatened house-cats (with full sets of claws!). There are some thing that are just too dangerous (like hand grenades and nuclear bombs) that we cannot just assume that everyone in society will use them wisely. Some people CAN own tigers safely...and those folks need to be carefully licensed.
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  #24  
Old 02-15-2009, 07:11 AM
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Yes - you're correct with the temperament thing re. pits vs filas.

I actually find it quite scary that a breed body would encourage breeding for this trait.

For every 1 decent owner/breeder you know, and I mean KNOW, there are 12 crap ones. Who will be reading that with glee and encouraging their dogs to be mentalists.

POOF

There goes the fila - hope you're ready to wave goodbye.

And it was nothing to do with the people who were breeding "soft" filas........
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"Dogs are our link to paradise. They do not know jealousy or discontent. To sit with a dog on a hillside on a glorious afternoon is to be back in Eden, where doing nothing wasn't boring, it was peace."


Bodhi is the opposite of ignorance, the insight into reality which destroys mental afflictions and brings peace.

Owned by Bodhi Booglaoo and Fredington Holbein


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  #25  
Old 02-15-2009, 07:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Groch View Post
I agree with nearly all that you say. But some may see a distinction that is not at all relevant.

Pitbulls that are "true representations" are not human aggressive. The author argues that at least one faction feels that Filas must be human aggressive in order to be Filas, and that this somehow justifies their breeding.

Allowing the unregulated breeding of purposely human aggressive dogs is absolutely irresponsible in modern society. I do not see how it matters if doing so preserves "true representations" or not. A vicious dog is a vicious dog.

The most ignorant response is from those who insist on the "slippery slope" argument for everything. That is, "If we do not allow everyone to purposely breed powerful dogs for human aggression...then we soon only be allowed to own golden retrievers with their teeth removed."

That is not just ignorant, its nuts. Somehow these people are willing to depend on their neighbors to have LOTS of sense when it comes to breeding vicious animals, and non at all when it comes to understanding the difference between a hair trigger aggressive deadly weapon with "issues" and a GSD when it comes to regulation.

We cannot own tigers, but that does hasn't threatened house-cats (with full sets of claws!). There are some thing that are just too dangerous (like hand grenades and nuclear bombs) that we cannot just assume that everyone in society will use them wisely. Some people CAN own tigers safely...and those folks need to be carefully licensed.
I will disagree with this.

To me, this needs to be an issue about ethics, *not* law. I don't believe in laws telling people what dogs they can breed or own and how they can do it.

The comparison with tigers is a very poor one. Tigers are and always have been *wild* animals. Fila are and always have been domesticated ones. VERY big difference there.

I think the issue here needs to come down to those that breed and own these dogs and how good of stewards they are to the breed. As the breed is becoming more well known, the future of the breed depends on how carefully breeders select homes for their pups.

Unfortunately many breeds that were once hard to find are showing up more and more. I've met 2 Cane Corsos in our area, and in classifieds in Chicago papers there are often ads for Cane Corsos, Pressas, Dogue de Bordeaux,etc. Sadly, I'm sure filas are not far behind.

If what the author of this blog is saying is untrue, then there needs to be more info on the web regarding what *is* the truth, because honestly, what he states in the first part of his blog is pretty consistent with most of the articles I've read.
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~Christina--Mom to:
Sally--8 yr old pit bull mix
Jack--6 yr old Labrador
Sadie & Runt--12 yr old calico DSHs
Pickles & Kiwi--3 yr old white winged parakeets
Yoda--1 yr old Quaker parrot
Solo--12 yr old Senegal parrot
Sheena--Quarter Horse--3/24/86-6/23/11--Rest Easy Sweet Girl~




Labs do it in the lake.


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  #26  
Old 02-15-2009, 07:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dizzy View Post
Yes - you're correct with the temperament thing re. pits vs filas.

I actually find it quite scary that a breed body would encourage breeding for this trait.

For every 1 decent owner/breeder you know, and I mean KNOW, there are 12 crap ones. Who will be reading that with glee and encouraging their dogs to be mentalists.

POOF

There goes the fila - hope you're ready to wave goodbye.

And it was nothing to do with the people who were breeding "soft" filas........
This happened to a certain extent with pressas. There was that incident where the crazy couple allowed dogs they knew were aggressive (the whole situation was just weird) to get out of their apartment and kill their neighbor. Up until that moment the nation as a whole had no idea what the breed was. After that, apartments began banning the breed, insurance issues began to pop up with the breed, and some towns ever worked them into their BSL.

Filas have already been quite lucky to escape that kind of scrutiny when that actor's employee ended up dead, whether they were involved or not.
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~Christina--Mom to:
Sally--8 yr old pit bull mix
Jack--6 yr old Labrador
Sadie & Runt--12 yr old calico DSHs
Pickles & Kiwi--3 yr old white winged parakeets
Yoda--1 yr old Quaker parrot
Solo--12 yr old Senegal parrot
Sheena--Quarter Horse--3/24/86-6/23/11--Rest Easy Sweet Girl~




Labs do it in the lake.


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  #27  
Old 02-15-2009, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by sillysally View Post
I will disagree with this.

To me, this needs to be an issue about ethics, *not* law. I don't believe in laws telling people what dogs they can breed or own and how they can do it......The comparison with tigers is a very poor one. Tigers are and always have been *wild* animals.....
Dogs too were once "wild animals".

While there is controversy about how domestication came about, it is quite certain that the very first domesticated dog/wolves that may have been suitable as hunting partners who never "shared the cave" would not today be suitable as suburban companion animals. Wolves, and wolf/dog hybrids are banned in most communities for that reason.

According to the dictionary, domesticated means to adapt an animal to live in intimate association with and to the advantage of human beings

The author of the article argues quite convincingly that it is not to the advantage of humans in the U.S. to own dogs bred specifically for their enthusiasm for running down and violently attacking people/slaves (even if their might have been a purpose for this hundreds of years ago in South America).

I have no idea whether his facts are right, or whether Fila's accurately fit this description, but his argument makes very good sense.
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  #28  
Old 02-15-2009, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Groch View Post
Dogs too were once "wild animals".

While there is controversy about how domestication came about, it is quite certain that the very first domesticated dog/wolves that may have been suitable as hunting partners who never "shared the cave" would not today be suitable as suburban companion animals. Wolves, and wolf/dog hybrids are banned in most communities for that reason.

According to the dictionary, domesticated means to adapt an animal to live in intimate association with and to the advantage of human beings

The author of the article argues quite convincingly that it is not to the advantage of humans in the U.S. to own dogs bred specifically for their enthusiasm for running down and violently attacking people/slaves (even if their might have been a purpose for this hundreds of years ago in South America).

I have no idea whether his facts are right, or whether Fila's accurately fit this description, but his argument makes very good sense.
So who gets to decide which dogs are suitable for which people to own in the modern day? You?

Everyone has their own ideas for what they want in a dog. Personally, I prefer a dog that would let Jack the Ripper into the house, because I'm not someone that into having very protective dogs. However, if someone wants a dog with hardcore Ojeriza, they are the ones taking on the responsibility and the liability, not me--it's not my business.

If you are not even sure if his facts are right, then don't you think that it's a tad hasty to jump to conclusions about whether or not people should own Filas?
__________________

~Christina--Mom to:
Sally--8 yr old pit bull mix
Jack--6 yr old Labrador
Sadie & Runt--12 yr old calico DSHs
Pickles & Kiwi--3 yr old white winged parakeets
Yoda--1 yr old Quaker parrot
Solo--12 yr old Senegal parrot
Sheena--Quarter Horse--3/24/86-6/23/11--Rest Easy Sweet Girl~




Labs do it in the lake.



Last edited by sillysally; 02-15-2009 at 10:12 AM.
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  #29  
Old 02-15-2009, 10:06 AM
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It's not about owning filas, or them being wary of strangers or even protective.

I think the key word is AGGRESSION.

If your fila is protective and TRAINED to attack on cue, then it is no different from other guarding dogs.

It's when a dog takes it upon itself to attack with no command that scares me.

And the fact that this body is endorsing this behaviour.
__________________
"Dogs are our link to paradise. They do not know jealousy or discontent. To sit with a dog on a hillside on a glorious afternoon is to be back in Eden, where doing nothing wasn't boring, it was peace."


Bodhi is the opposite of ignorance, the insight into reality which destroys mental afflictions and brings peace.

Owned by Bodhi Booglaoo and Fredington Holbein


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  #30  
Old 02-15-2009, 10:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dizzy View Post
It's not about owning filas, or them being wary of strangers or even protective.

I think the key word is AGGRESSION.

If your fila is protective and TRAINED to attack on cue, then it is no different from other guarding dogs.

It's when a dog takes it upon itself to attack with no command that scares me.

And the fact that this body is endorsing this behaviour.
Well, when there is discussion from the blog author and a poster about whether people should be *allowed* to have the dogs then it does become, at least partly, about owning Filas. Unfortunately, when many people see something they don't like their first thought is "BAN!"

That having been said, the idea of a dog making it's own decision about attacking is something that makes me uncomfortable and is a huge liability.
__________________

~Christina--Mom to:
Sally--8 yr old pit bull mix
Jack--6 yr old Labrador
Sadie & Runt--12 yr old calico DSHs
Pickles & Kiwi--3 yr old white winged parakeets
Yoda--1 yr old Quaker parrot
Solo--12 yr old Senegal parrot
Sheena--Quarter Horse--3/24/86-6/23/11--Rest Easy Sweet Girl~




Labs do it in the lake.


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