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  #11  
Old 02-14-2009, 10:33 PM
DogstarAcademy DogstarAcademy is offline
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So.... in an article about the "True Fila Temperament"

Quote:
"The feature that perhaps is at first sight the most apparent in a Fila's temperament is the "ojeriza" to strangers (ojeriza - sharp aversion). On the contrary to other puppies, a Fila Puppy is not inclined to relaxed playing with anyone. He attaches himself quickly to those with whom he lives but is, however, from his earliest youth suspicious of persons he does not know. Suspicion may make him irritated and annoyed and to some extent even make him growl with a certain amount of aggression, but yet without sufficient self-confidence to attack. In the course of his development the aversion against strangers will become more and more apparent. Already as a puppy the Fila will clearly show his displeasure if a stranger would try to touch him. At about the age of one year the Fila would attack any person unknown to him who would try to touch him."
Quote:
"No matter which instrument is used for the temperament test (rod, broom, towel, chair, etc.) the Fila's reaction is always prompt. spontaneous, and without any sign of insecurity. He throws himself forward and upwards (making the characteristic diagonal ascent, mentioned in the CAFIB-standard) attempting to reach the face or the throat of the aggressor."
Ojeriza
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  #12  
Old 02-14-2009, 10:36 PM
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Renee750il Renee750il is offline
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Maybe you've been talking to the wrong people.

But . . . tell it to those who've crossed the line with Kharma, including some of the local cops and their little K9s. Tell it to the moron who thought I'd be easy prey out walking. Tell it to the prowler who found himself confronted with an angry Fila coming through a broken window after him. Tell it to dude who got a steel bar taken away from him by a seven month old puppy. I might add that she never laid a tooth on him. She disarmed him and as long as he stood still she was quite satisfied.

Too many people - even long time owners - have no concept of how devastatingly intellligent this breed is, or how cognizant and able to adapt they are. I've never encountered any other breed of dog that comes close. I am, though, speaking of working lines, or lines that have a goodly percentage of working lines.
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  #13  
Old 02-14-2009, 10:40 PM
DogstarAcademy DogstarAcademy is offline
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So the fact that your dog did NOT attack and severely injure the prowler, which is defined as correct temperament, is supposed to make me feel better about people breeding for that quality?

I think Kharma sounds like a really awesome dog, and I think that quality of judgement sounds awesome. But you know, I run into people who think that their collies will instinctively protect children, that their BCs will herd sheep usefully without any training and that their lab that's never been outside the city will be a useful duck dog in a day. Dogs are DOGS.
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  #14  
Old 02-14-2009, 10:41 PM
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Quote:
attempting to reach the face or the throat of the aggressor.
Um. DUH.

Someone attempting to touch a dog who clearly does not want to be touched is not the victim of aggression. They're a victim of their own gross stupidity.

Bear in mind the CAFIB info has largely passed through some not-so-exact translations.

GSDs are nice dogs. I've always loved them. But they aren't Filas. Nothing is.
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Stupid is the most notoriously incurable and contagious disease known to mankind. If you find yourself in close proximity to someone infected with stupid, walk away as soon as said infection is noted.


There are few things more nauseating than pure obedience. ~ Kvothe

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  #15  
Old 02-14-2009, 10:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DogstarAcademy View Post
So the fact that your dog did NOT attack and severely injure the prowler, which is defined as correct temperament, is supposed to make me feel better about people breeding for that quality?

I think Kharma sounds like a really awesome dog, and I think that quality of judgement sounds awesome. But you know, I run into people who think that their collies will instinctively protect children, that their BCs will herd sheep usefully without any training and that their lab that's never been outside the city will be a useful duck dog in a day. Dogs are DOGS.
Ah, but the difference is, Kharma's proven herself - numerous times, not only in her temperament but in her herding instincts, hunting abilities and general "fila-ness." And it doesn't matter if you or anyone else is comfortable with her abilities and temperament. I am. I'm the one who matters.

They aren't for everyone. They truly are a breed for a very few, and we don't want just anyone to think they should have one. It takes a certain temperament to share your life with a Fila.
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In a controversy the instant we feel anger we have already ceased striving for the truth, and have begun striving for ourselves. ~Buddha

Stupid is the most notoriously incurable and contagious disease known to mankind. If you find yourself in close proximity to someone infected with stupid, walk away as soon as said infection is noted.


There are few things more nauseating than pure obedience. ~ Kvothe

***8206;"silence is the language of god, all else is poor translation."
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  #16  
Old 02-14-2009, 10:46 PM
DogstarAcademy DogstarAcademy is offline
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I know translation issues can make breed standards tricky, but it still seems to me like a quality which is notable in the situations you've described by it's absence, not it's presence.
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  #17  
Old 02-14-2009, 10:48 PM
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She was 7 months old when she disarmed the 6'5", 380 pound man.

When she was grown and we were accosted out walking she went directly for the man's face and throat. He immediately retreated. She knew she didn't need to pursue it farther.
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In a controversy the instant we feel anger we have already ceased striving for the truth, and have begun striving for ourselves. ~Buddha

Stupid is the most notoriously incurable and contagious disease known to mankind. If you find yourself in close proximity to someone infected with stupid, walk away as soon as said infection is noted.


There are few things more nauseating than pure obedience. ~ Kvothe

***8206;"silence is the language of god, all else is poor translation."
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  #18  
Old 02-14-2009, 11:31 PM
Psyfalcon Psyfalcon is offline
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My question is, honestly, how many can be socialized like Kharma? Can you socialize the heck out of one, and have it ok, if its owner gets sick and is hospitalized for a week? It seems inevitable that someone unknown to the dog would have to touch him at some point (vet?)

In any case, comparing the Fila to a GSD isn't fair. The jobs of a Mastiff and a "Herding/Police" dog are pretty different. Even if they were trackers, it seems the fila has kept much more of its own instinct to protect a territory and to think on its own. A GSD or Malinois, well, if I tell it to grab someone, they'd better do it. Thats usually prey drive.
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  #19  
Old 02-14-2009, 11:59 PM
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You're correct. There is no comparison

Honestly? I wondered the same thing. It's not so much a matter of "socializing" in the same way we think of socializing other dogs, it's really "schooling" the Fila and giving it an opportunity to learn about the world and how it works. I've been amazed. She understands.

It was really interesting to be able to interact with Bella and see how, even at a young age, she worked it out in her head that it was okay for me to be there and then applied what she learned to the other people who came later. She did differentiate between people. Bella accepted BabyBlue more easily than she did a couple of Nikki's family members.

As far as the vet goes, you start taking the Fila in to visit and get to know the vet and the techs before you need vet care. If your vet isn't willing to do that without charging you, then you need another vet as that one doesn't have the sense necessary to treat a Fila.
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In a controversy the instant we feel anger we have already ceased striving for the truth, and have begun striving for ourselves. ~Buddha

Stupid is the most notoriously incurable and contagious disease known to mankind. If you find yourself in close proximity to someone infected with stupid, walk away as soon as said infection is noted.


There are few things more nauseating than pure obedience. ~ Kvothe

***8206;"silence is the language of god, all else is poor translation."
Rumi
Be a god. Know when to shut up.


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  #20  
Old 02-15-2009, 02:28 AM
DogstarAcademy DogstarAcademy is offline
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You're right, a GSD or Mal isn't the right comparison. A better one might be a Pyr or Anatolian, perhaps? I would still say that those dogs DO require socialization to be ultimately successful- one that bites the vet or has to be lasso'd and chased down and then dragged into a kennel in order for the livestock to be vetted or loaded for sale or whatever- is better than nothing but still a potential liability.
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