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  #31  
Old 01-26-2009, 11:58 AM
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Those DNA things...I always am suspicious LOL. Are they at least more precise than the ones they have for dog breeds?
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  #32  
Old 01-26-2009, 12:04 PM
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They are and they aren't. You are looking at isolated populations (for the most part) And you tend to compare much larger portions of the genome. Both are much more likely to give you accuracy. Most breeds of dogs are not that isolated genetically. Some of the rarer ancient breeds.. yes. So good DNA tests (which I have yet to see one off) would likely be more accurate with them.

There are very easily (even to me lol) large differences between old and new world wolves.
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  #33  
Old 01-26-2009, 12:13 PM
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Some interesting articles...

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...39/ai_10948571

http://www.propertyrightsresearch.or...coming_coy.htm

http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=17173030

Wolves vs dogs vs (I think coyotes) have some very distinct structural characteristics. There are some physical structures of the skull that are common to ALL dogs no matter what breed... but are not the same as those of wolves or coyotes. So with DNA testing we are looking at comparing animals that are much more differentiated than dog to dog.. even if its a chi to a fila.
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  #34  
Old 01-26-2009, 02:02 PM
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Yeah, people like to put things in organized little boxes...and that's not how the real world works when it comes to species differentiation. Many of the species we have classified, if you were to DNA profile them, would actually be the same species but with different social behaviors or geographical distribution which prevents crossbreeding without human interferance.

There has been a huge deal about this in the cornsnake community. Cornsnakes, and all other new world rat snakes hybridize very readily in captivity, have fertile offspring, and after a few generations of crossing it's impossible to tell whether an animal is a hybrid or not. A few hybrids happen in the wild, but due to differencea in breeding seasons and courtship rituals it's not terribly common.

Then you have kingsnakes (lampropeltis), a totally different genus with totally different behaviors, most notable being cannibalism. They also produce fertile and hardy offspring with rat snakes in captivity. It would never happen in the wild, because they would normally eat a rat snake. In captivity you have to "bait and switch" lol, and even then it's a bit risky. People still do it often though, and after a couple of generations it's visually impossible to tell a hybrid from a pure animal (which is bad when you have a snake that you expect to cohabit peacefully with others, and then starts eating them for no apparent reason).

All of this applies to different species of trout, salmon, grouse, deer.

Let's not even get into plants. lol!

If it weren't for all the political/ethical ramifications, scientists would have different races of human all classed as different species. When you look at the phenotypical difference between a norseman and a member of the hottentot tribe...there is a greater difference than between a wolf and a coyote. In fact "back in the day" people were classified as different species (which a lot of jerks used as an excuse to treat people badly)
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  #35  
Old 01-26-2009, 06:45 PM
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personally i see coyote in the face, the muzzle seems too dainty to be wolf and i think sizewise is deciving, i definatly get the image form thos pics that hes smaller than first seems.

he looks ALOT like a dog i met about 2 yrs ago that came through the shelter i worked at and was put to sleep. his mother was someones illegal "pet" coyote, the father the guys Husky/mal mix. he looked axactly like that dog down to a T. beutiful boy. but even low content hybrids are illegal in the state and he was imediatly put to sleep
very sweet boy though and such a shame, he was very "quiet" ignored most of the other dogs (though couldnt be trusted around cats or small breeds cause he got realy excited) and he was such a howler, not in the sad im in a kennel kind of way, hed go out for his nightime run and just HOWL for the heck of it.

that dog is pretty no matter what it is, but id definatly not say pure wolf...i definatly see more coy in the face, i think the color and "floof" make him look a little more wolfie.
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  #36  
Old 01-26-2009, 07:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HoundedByHounds View Post
I see more coyote than wolf actually.
Just found this thread, showed my hubby who has seen far more coyotes than me and he also agrees with you & Ado, thought of coyote right away.
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  #37  
Old 01-26-2009, 07:23 PM
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Wow! What striking animal.
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  #38  
Old 01-26-2009, 07:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FoxyWench View Post
personally i see coyote in the face, the muzzle seems too dainty to be wolf and i think sizewise is deciving, i definatly get the image form thos pics that hes smaller than first seems.

he looks ALOT like a dog i met about 2 yrs ago that came through the shelter i worked at and was put to sleep. his mother was someones illegal "pet" coyote, the father the guys Husky/mal mix. he looked axactly like that dog down to a T. beutiful boy. but even low content hybrids are illegal in the state and he was imediatly put to sleep
very sweet boy though and such a shame, he was very "quiet" ignored most of the other dogs (though couldnt be trusted around cats or small breeds cause he got realy excited) and he was such a howler, not in the sad im in a kennel kind of way, hed go out for his nightime run and just HOWL for the heck of it.

that dog is pretty no matter what it is, but id definatly not say pure wolf...i definatly see more coy in the face, i think the color and "floof" make him look a little more wolfie.
He was very small. kody (my black and tan beagle in those pics) is 35 pounds. The golden he was standing by when they were checking out the aussie is his owners friends golden and shes about 45-50 pounds if that. Very small for a golden. The aussie is still a puppy, so yeah he was pretty small. I def think coyote.
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