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  #271  
Old 11-23-2008, 04:15 PM
Jynx Jynx is offline
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and you may be exactly right, I don't condone that at all, and I did read your side of things, And certainly not excusing the use of profanity, but if someone stood there and called my dog "clueless",,(and I realize the woman wasn't addressing him so joe's use of profanity was totally uncalled for),,I probably would have taken on an attitude as well..I most likely wouldn't have said what Joe said,,but I wouldn't have kept my mouth shut either..

But again, I do realize the lady wasn't talking about Joe at all, but apparently he thought she was (again not excusing it)..

And don't get me wrong, I absolutely agree that peyton charging up to a dog even tho she wants to play/be social, could be very dangerous for her.

I am 'deprogramming' my gsd puppy from just such episodes, long story,,but positive puppy classes for her were definately anything but positive..I am now attending a different training place, and keeping masi behind a gate, which allows her to watch the goings on of class, they walk by her, it's helping to desensitize her to the idea that every dog she encounters wants to "jump her bones",,she's been VERY good, and VERY relaxed doing this, however, that occasional dog that comes just a tad to close, is getting a face snap, our goal is to get thru the gate and sit on the sidelines,,after that, into the class, however, the trainer and I will make sure no dogs cross her safety zone..

But this isn't about "me",,but I can kinda relate to Joe's frustration with "classes"..

ok done rambling,,(just want to say I LOVE CU, just bought it, and I'm half way thru it,,great book)
Diane
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  #272  
Old 11-23-2008, 04:44 PM
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lizzybeth727 lizzybeth727 is offline
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Originally Posted by Jynx View Post
I think he's tried just about everything suggested in this thread and then some. He just wants a dog he can live with is what I'm getting out of the whole thing.
But that's just the thing, I don't think he HAS done very much at all of what has been suggested in this thread. We've told him many many times that he has to keep Payton under threshold, and he continues to push her too far and then compalins about a reactive episode. We've suggested getting the books Click to Calm and CU, and as far as I know he hasn't read either. The clip of Payton in the obedience class shows that there are times when she's calm, but Joe does nothing to reinforce the calmness. Even crate training - we've told him that Payton needs to be in a crate at all times when she is not directly supervised, and yet he continues to leave her unsupervised in both the house and in the car, and then he gets upset with her when she gets into things. Like I said, after 250+ posts his questions really haven't changed. I don't know what the problem was, but I really don't think there's anything more we can say here to help him.
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  #273  
Old 11-23-2008, 05:37 PM
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adojrts adojrts is offline
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Originally Posted by Jynx View Post
Ok, I hope Joe isn't gone,,I'm not going to bash him or his frustration.. I've been 'in" on this thread with Carrie as well, and others, since the start, (since I have aussies it is of interest to me)..

I DO think it's very easy to sit back , and condemn him for his obvious frustration and methods others may not condone , WE, myself included, haven't walked or lived in HIS shoes.

Diane
Obviously that is a direct response to my post and I would like to clarify.

I was involved at the start and why I dropped out and decided this was a waste of MY time was Joe's attitude. Not surprising that he ended up using profanity in a class setting...........that was easy to predict by reading between the lines.

There are some excellent trainers on this board and the FREE advice that they have given was thrown back in their faces, granted the advice was freely given.

Things can only go around and around for so long...........

Frustration?? I would expect there are countless people myself included that have known the absolute max of frustration when training a dog AND a dog with issues. Having said that most of us being reasonable haven't blamed a method or the dog. And if that method isn't working look for WHY it isn't or look for something that does.

I agree with Lizzy, right at the very beginning he was advised to read some excellent books and I am going to assume it wasn't done. Especially when he calls things like Zen dog training..........

Did Joe apologize to Dogstar for what happened in that class??
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  #274  
Old 11-23-2008, 06:13 PM
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Never doing anything besides basic OB , I stayed out of this . We did have a Dobe trainer in my old OB club who was kicked out for actually hanging her dogs from the chain collars . She bred and showed her Dobes and opened up her own facility . Some of my puppy buyers were going to go to her and I said " NO " . She would have broken a Golden's spirit ! Each breed is different , which is why I didn't enter this . Had I taken some of these approaches , my Goldens would have been basket cases ! I would have called it confusing , busy work with a pup that young .
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  #275  
Old 11-23-2008, 06:15 PM
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Did Joe apologize to Dogstar for what happened in that class??
Sort of....
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Originally Posted by JoeLacy View Post
I will apologize publicly for loosing my temper, but I won't change my mind on that method.
..... but not until after he called her a waste of time.
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  #276  
Old 11-24-2008, 11:08 AM
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But that's just the thing, I don't think he HAS done very much at all of what has been suggested in this thread. We've told him many many times that he has to keep Payton under threshold, and he continues to push her too far and then compalins about a reactive episode. We've suggested getting the books Click to Calm and CU, and as far as I know he hasn't read either. The clip of Payton in the obedience class shows that there are times when she's calm, but Joe does nothing to reinforce the calmness. Even crate training - we've told him that Payton needs to be in a crate at all times when she is not directly supervised, and yet he continues to leave her unsupervised in both the house and in the car, and then he gets upset with her when she gets into things. Like I said, after 250+ posts his questions really haven't changed. I don't know what the problem was, but I really don't think there's anything more we can say here to help him.
Exactly. It's completely illogical to blame the method when nothing resembling the method has been done. This guy is running off of sheer emotion. And another thing: This dog is what...8 months old? I told him give her till she's 2-3 years old before she'll become close to reliable and significantly settled down. It's also a maturing thing. He can't wait for even 352 weeks let alone a couple of years. Well, that isn't how it works with lots of dogs. You've got to have reasonable expectations. I don't think this dog is right for Joe anymore. I think she should be re-homed to someone on a farm or something. Perhaps the city isn't the best place for this dog. If you don't have patience for a puppy to grow up to maturity and can't impliment the advice given along the way, perhaps only an already trained, adult dog is the way to go...one that just needs periodic refreshers.
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  #277  
Old 11-24-2008, 12:55 PM
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Angelique Angelique is offline
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I've been following this thread, but have not participated for the very reason you guys are now addressing.

Hang around the dog boards long enough and you will spot the difference between those who have a sincere desire to learn and progress, and those who seem to have some sort of other motive for their participation.

Some folks just need a bit of a wake-up call, and others simply become a waste of time and effort.

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  #278  
Old 11-24-2008, 05:04 PM
Jynx Jynx is offline
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I do 'hear' what all of you are saying,,and I do agree,,I had a chat with someone (not joe) and heard some disturbing stuff since I last posted,

And yes, now that it's mentioned ,,I don't recall Joe ever saying he 'read' any of the books suggested, and never did get answers on 'why' the dog wasn't crated to avoid destructive behavior..

I'm done with this as well, I just feel bad for Peyton who in my opinion, has so much potential in the right hands ( (just as a side I never could view the you tube stuff, my computer is to slow for that )

I hope Peyton makes out ok,,
diane
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