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Old 10-18-2008, 05:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Doberluv View Post
And I see nothing different in science from art in training. Science is an art. Art is a science. Terminology simply helps identify or define things, just like language does in general. And it enriches things.
There are those who have an analytical mind and those who have a creative mind -- and yea, there's lots of middle ground also. I fall heavily on the creative side. It makes a huge difference. Reading your posts, Carrie, makes me believe you are much more analytical.

When I train, I have no idea if I'm using OC, CC, something-else-C or whatever. I do know that if my dog's ear moves a certain way or if his eye twitches or if his left rear foot hits the ground a half second slower, I need to do something different -- and that something might be that I need to stop an play with him, or it might be that I need to repeat the exercise, or it might mean he needs a nap, or it might mean my head was tilted and my left ear was in a funny place and causing confusion.
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Old 10-18-2008, 06:02 PM
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About Silverman...He was the one telling us we were doing the clicker training wrong. So while no his show isn't clicker training U.. he shouldn't go around telling people about things he knows little about.

As for forging. Dekka used to forge horribly. I would 'doodle around and click those moments when she wasn't forging. At first that meant I would have to change direction pretty quickly and click when she caught up but before she passed. I have had several clients do this as well and it works great. LOL I know you fixed the issue but if you have another dog in the future and don't want to risk devaluing your marker there are ways to go about it.

As to training with which side of the brain.... I find many of the things I did intuatively are the same things I do now analytically. AND it takes a LOT of creativity to train positively. You need to think out side the box and find how to help the dog find what you want. So you really need both if you want to be a great trainer. I think with only one you can still be a good trainer.
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Old 10-18-2008, 06:06 PM
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oops double post
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Old 10-18-2008, 08:11 PM
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I agree Dekka. I think it takes both to be a really effective communicator with dogs. You must analyze things and be able to discern minute changes in not only your dog's behavior, but in your own. Corgipower, I suspect you are being analytical, but just aren't aware that you are...or that you don't perhaps know the details of the terminology or just exactly what is behind this or that, but you're still probably realizing at some level what you have to do, what adjustments you need to make etc. And to train well, you have to be creative and come up with lots and lots of variables or alternatives when one thing isn't quite doing the trick and take into account the individuals.

With my Doberman, he didn't train up so routinely like my Lab or GSDs in the past. He was smart and wanting to work...BUT he insisted that I make things more interesting, more varied.....couldn't take too much repitition all at one time. He couldn't handle being serious. LOL. I'm serious. He was a major goof and was perfectly willing, but he had to put his .02 in also. Like, "Okay Mom...fine, but first, listen. I know what will work better. Try this on me, will you?" So I would and viola`! I couldn't dream of squashing his enthusiasm so I'd have to find ways to incorporate his raucous abandon and extraordinary joy of life into his tasks. But that way, he was doing everything with great gutso which I love in a dog. So, I was adjusting and fine tuning all the time. He ended up being my best trained dog ever...just a super dog. But I had to become more creative than I was in the past with other dogs.

I think besides learning particular techniques and such, it helps to have lived with quite a few dogs for a lot of years. It's helpful, but not a prerequisit for doing a decent job. I think though, that it makes it easier when things come almost naturally to you. I don't really think too consciously about what my dog is looking like or even someone else's dog. I do watch, but sort of notice things or read dogs almost instantaneously, without really thinking about it too much. You hear people who are unfamiliar with dogs unable to discern whether they're play growling or serious growling. Or whether a dog is aggressive or fearful. They can't tell. Pictures in books are good and helpful. But not much can replace years of hanging around dogs. It's like jobs. You can go to school and learn a lot, but hands on...what you do at the job is what really makes a big difference.

I have a client right now with a large dog with quite a severe aggression problem. And you better believe it that I have to be able to discern minute changes in his demeanor along with knowing technically what to do as far as a plan to counter condition him....and his owners. There is art and science, creativity and techniques all working together. I do hope they'll follow through and prevent this dog from being destroyed. After all, they caused it in the first place with that show 'em who's boss attitude. People so miss the whole point of domestic dogs.
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Last edited by Doberluv; 10-18-2008 at 08:22 PM.
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