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Old 10-10-2008, 11:12 AM
Labra Labra is offline
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 280

Right, so you are home ALL day, but you can't be bothered to get off your butt and walk the dog? why? it doesn't take much effort to strap a leash on and walk for 20 minutes. I really don't get people with this mentality. If you want an animal you don't have to walk, get a CAT! or even better, a hamster. You can keep one of those in a cage.

Seriously...what a joke. Having a backyard is NO excuse not to exercise your dog. Letting it run around by itself for 10 minutes a day isn't is a lazy persons way out. If you get a dog, I will seriously feel sorry for it.
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Old 10-10-2008, 11:49 AM
Pops2 Pops2 is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: UT
Posts: 3,072

Originally Posted by Boemy View Post
Within urban/suburban environments, this is the largest threat to native songbirds:

In rural areas the biggest threats are a) development, b) non-native species, and c) leaving large amounts of edge on clearcuts which allow raccoons, cowbirds, etc, to get into formerly inaccessible habitat and eat/replace eggs.

i disagree, the english sparrow and the starling have been competeing w/ native small birds for over 200 years, but i freely admit they don't help the situation. but the dramatic decline has only occurred in the last 40 years (primarily the last 20) since raptors became fully protected and killing excess feral/stray cats became politically (and in some places legally) unacceptable. that timing also coincides w/ the institution of "clean" farming practices that eliminated the edge cover needed by many small species. it also coincides w/ the rise of the "green" movement & their effort to end clearcut logging instead of rotational harvesting to maintain the variety of successional habitat. developement has only been a major problem in the last ten years but has had a disproportionate effect. i also disagree about the edges allowing access by predatory and parasitic species. for one the fur boom of the late 70s & 80s cut raccoon & other furbearing predators dramatically by more than 70% in some places. but the small birds & mammals didn't recover in this period because the raccoons were replaced by feral/stray whose population swelled in proportion to the losses among native predators/furbearers. this was also the period during which raptors made their most significant growth & recovery. additionally a cowbird can go pretty much anywhere a cardinal can go and raccoons aren't far off from that. species survive on volume, if they don't have habitat to live they can't produce an adequate volume. if they are overpredated they can't replace their losses. no one factor is great enough to do all the damge by itself except habitat loss, however if done slowly enough the species can adapt and survive effectively. the problem is the habitat loss isn't slow enough and compounds the effect of the other threats.
i think we're on the same track just nitpicking over details.
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Old 10-10-2008, 02:05 PM
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lizzybeth727 lizzybeth727 is offline
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Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Central Texas
Posts: 6,403

Anybody else notice that the OP's been gone for almost three months?

I don't think he's gonna hear ya.
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Old 10-10-2008, 05:55 PM
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Bahamutt99 Bahamutt99 is offline
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: High Ridge, MO
Posts: 2,365

I noticed. Was gonna yell "date check!" but people seemed to be having a good time. LOL
& the Gravity Dogs

Now entering the land of hypnotic signatures...
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Old 10-10-2008, 09:37 PM
DanL DanL is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 3,926

It's all ufimych's fault for resurrecting this thread from the dead!
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Old 10-10-2008, 10:03 PM
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ihartgonzo ihartgonzo is offline
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Join Date: May 2006
Location: Northern California
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Originally Posted by Pops2 View Post
ufymich was referring to the OP who stated the dog would have a "big backyard" and some occasional walks. that's fine if they do like you said and ensure the dog gets some good running. but if that is all they are going to get that's not good for a sighthound. other than whippets & italians, no sighthound can even stretch it out in a BY 100X100 or even twice that. it would be like being a prisoner, 8X8 cell and in manacles EVERY time you leave the walls. a sighthound w/ true sighthound temperament would have issues NEVER getting to stretch it out. further ufymich is clearly from a country that used to be part of the soviet union and his/her english isn't always perfect and the ideas expressed aren't always clear.
about the stray cat thing, free roaming cats (especially those well fed & cared for) are the second largest threat to threatened & endangered small birds. only habitat loss is a greater concern (thank you rural developers and greenies w/ your ignorant regulation against timber harvest & controlled burns). every cat his/her dogs take saves the lives of thousands of small birds over what would have been the lifetime of the cat. additionally every free roaming cat (not just stray/feral) is subject to being preyed upon by hawks, owls, free roaming dogs, bobcats, foxes, coyotes, raccoons and even large snakes ( think 5' + diamondback here). his/her dogs (and mine) are just one more on the list. the difference is that at least if the cat has a collar or obviously rescently had a collar, i can make the effort to prevent my dog catching it. if it's really tame i'll even take it to the pound (which is miserable for me since i am very allergic). a truly feral cat is also a great test before turning your dog out on something that fights a lot harder like raccoon or a large red fox and eventually coyote & an aggressive whitetail buck in the rut. at one time before & during WWII feral cats were such a pestilence a bounty was placed on them (the furs were also used for winter clothing and to line jackets for high altitude flying). unfortunately for millions of small birds that's no longer politically correct.
I had not noticed that Ufymich was from a country that used to be part of the soviet union... regardless, that's my feelings on the issue.

I just don't see it as humane, to allow your dog to hunt down and kill "stray cats". Any one of those cats could be lost pets, for all they know. And the answer to overpopulation is not allowing hunting dogs to run free and kill them. It just seems hypocritical to say it's fine that stray cats are killed for fun - but birds being killed is an atrocity. I don't agree with allowing cats to run free, at all, but that doesn't devalue the cat's lives.

<3 Erica, Gonzo & Fozzie
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Old 10-11-2008, 04:29 AM
Pops2 Pops2 is offline
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: UT
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you're basically saying the NATIVE smallbirds are less important than the NONNATIVE feral cats. as a conservationist (which most dog hunters are) i disagree. when one must weigh the relative value of two different species in an environment the native one, even when repulsive must ethically always take precedence. since hunters & trappers spend more time actively trying to help acheive the mythical balance that AR whackos are so fond of. allowing your dog to hunt stray and feral cats is morally no different than hunting raccoons, foxes, or coyotes. is it fun yes but the primary goal of such hunting is to keep predator populations within the carry capacity of the prey base or in the case of nonnative invasive species to eradicate them to assist the recovery and growth of native wildlife species. so yes I choose to consider the lives of the many as more valuable than the few. there is absolutey nothing hypocritical in my stance. if it were up to me there would be a bounty on starlings & english sparrows as well. and i actively persue wild boar because they are a highly destructive non native invasive species.
i know for a fact the overwhelming majority of stray/feral cats in my area aren't lost but abandoned. i've carried dozens of tame abandoned cats to the pound ( yes i am sure most were put down).
lastly hunting dogs can't hunt very well tied down on a leash, so they pretty much have to run free.
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