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Old 07-20-2008, 10:58 AM
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Default Very pushy!

Tyr is so pushy. He is great mind you. He is very attentive to me, he performs advanced obedience easily, he is excellent at protection training, very good with outs and call offs, etc.

But...he likes to nudge me with his nose, he sniffs everything and anything - including my entire body (or as much as his nose can reach), he licks constantly.

As for his obedience work, it's a problem because he'll sometimes come in to a sit front and start sniffing my legs and stomach, he'll nudge my hand while we're heeling.

At home it gets annoying after a while. He also isn't always gentle with his nudging which is combined with the fact that I am hypersensitive and it hurts.

I need suggestions!!
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Old 07-20-2008, 11:18 AM
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Angelique Angelique is offline
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Is he asking (or demanding) treats, pets, or toy rewards by leading and/or initiating the activity?

I've got one of these "intelligent/high drive/dominant/take your pick or all of the above" dogs myself.

I just pay close attention to who's initiating the activity and who is reacting to whom.

Some of these dogs even figure out they can even get rewards by misbehaving because they can think far enough ahead to know how to manipulate their owners, IMO.

I tend to view one aspect of leadership as "one who initiates, directs, causes, or controls the activities", along with the resources.

Although, there are always exceptions to the rules when it comes to intelligent, thinking beings.
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Old 07-20-2008, 11:23 AM
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I worked with a dog who did the same thing. Of course, it was extremely annoying. What I suggested was, whenever she would lick or nose-bump, she would have to go on a tether for 3-5 minutes. Whenever she approached appropriately (no licks or nose-bumps) then she would get praise and reinforcement. The tricky part is, though, you should do this EVERY TIME he licks you or noses you, at least for the first week or two. If he gets MUCH better by then, you can accept one or two licks, but if it gets obnoxious again, start the tether thing again.
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Old 07-20-2008, 11:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Angelique View Post
Is he asking (or demanding) treats, pets, or toy rewards by leading and/or initiating the activity?
Absolutely!

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Although, there are always exceptions to the rules when it comes to intelligent, thinking beings.
Yea, I know it

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Originally Posted by lizzybeth727 View Post
I worked with a dog who did the same thing. Of course, it was extremely annoying. What I suggested was, whenever she would lick or nose-bump, she would have to go on a tether for 3-5 minutes. Whenever she approached appropriately (no licks or nose-bumps) then she would get praise and reinforcement. The tricky part is, though, you should do this EVERY TIME he licks you or noses you, at least for the first week or two. If he gets MUCH better by then, you can accept one or two licks, but if it gets obnoxious again, start the tether thing again.
Hmmm...OK. I don't have a set up where I can tether him, I've tried walking away from him, but he just sees that as a part of the game and thinks he needs to push harder and more. He views that as a challenge. I've tried putting him on a platz, but that hasn't been effective. Maybe I can combine the two. Put him on a platz and walk away.

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The tricky part is, though, you should do this EVERY TIME he licks you or noses you
Yea, that is tricky...and you might have hit on a part of the problem. I very possibly am allowing it just often enough to keep the behavior going. He gets so persistent that he wears down my resistances.
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Old 07-20-2008, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by corgipower View Post
I very possibly am allowing it just often enough to keep the behavior going. He gets so persistent that he wears down my resistances.
Remember the gambling aspect of intermittant rewards. I believe some dogs (like some people) really enjoy the challenge of attempting the pay-off...even more than the pay-off itself.

This actually a great topic for discussion.
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Old 07-20-2008, 12:35 PM
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CP I had a lab that was terrible about this and the licking was the worst!

We taught her self control by holding a reward in our hand with a closed fist, the hand holding the reward was layed on your leg so it couldn't move. The dog was allowed to lick and do whatever she wanted, pawing, licking etc.
When she backed away, the hand was opened, showing the treat, when she moved towards it the fist was closed. When she finally backed away and wouldn't move towards the treat with an open hand, she was then given a reward from the other hand (not the treat in the fist).
We also put a mat out, when she started getting pushy, she was sent to the mat in a down for a time out.
It worked for this dog, hope that helps in some way.
Good luck
Lynn
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Old 07-20-2008, 04:57 PM
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Ado, thanks! But...if all he did was lick, it would be fine. but the nidging and pushing would seriously hurt my hand.

I did a session with him when he was on the bed and I sat down next to him. As soon as I sat, he put his nose on my hand. I said platz and got up and walked away. I waited a few seconds and returned to sit next to him again. He nudged me and again I said platz and got up and walked away. I waited a few seconds and returned. We repeated this severa; times with varying levels of pushiness, but I could tell that after a few tries, he was starting to think about what the deal was.

After several antics that he tried only ended in me saying platz and walking away, he finally stopped. I sat next to him and he looked at me but didn't make contact. I told him he was good and I petted him.

Later, I was on the bed and he jumped up to join me. He very politely jumped up next to me and then curled up a little bit away from me instead of his usual - land on top of me or lie down on top of me or nudge or push or whatever. So after a while - he was still giving me space - I reached over and petted him and gave him snuggles.

I think so long as I don't let my guard down and allow a nudge to be successful this might work.
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Old 07-20-2008, 11:42 PM
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That's awesome that you're having progress.

This is an enjoyable thread. I'm still amazed at the intelligence of these animals sometimes!
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Old 07-21-2008, 07:07 AM
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That's awesome that you're having progress.

This is an enjoyable thread. I'm still amazed at the intelligence of these animals sometimes!
Thanks, and thanks...

I am amazed at the animal's intelligence, not so amazed at my own as our progress has been stopped. Later that evening he exploded with stress diarrhea followed by stress shedding. He was overly clingy (sleeping at my feet while I was working).

He did have mild SA as a puppy which I haven't seen any indications of in at least a couple years. I'm thinking I triggered something in his SA with the walking away from him. Need a new plan. Maybe I can wrap myself up in scatmats ?
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  #10  
Old 07-21-2008, 07:38 AM
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Originally Posted by corgipower View Post
Thanks, and thanks...

I am amazed at the animal's intelligence, not so amazed at my own as our progress has been stopped. Later that evening he exploded with stress diarrhea followed by stress shedding. He was overly clingy (sleeping at my feet while I was working).

He did have mild SA as a puppy which I haven't seen any indications of in at least a couple years. I'm thinking I triggered something in his SA with the walking away from him. Need a new plan. Maybe I can wrap myself up in scatmats ?
Might be a bit of an emotional extinction burst, temporary insecurity because you changed the relationship, or simple confusion.

Although it's hard to say without knowing the two of you in person, I think you'll be able to get through this just fine (as long as he doesn't threaten to hold his breath until he turns blue).

Relax, take him for a walk or direct him into another activity, and try not to stress over it because I believe he will sense this in you and this can increase his insecurity, IMO.
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************************************************** ***********************************

Reward the good, ignore the bad, and always remember to duck during the temper tantrums!

"Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds" Albert Einstein

Here's to you, Jane Goodall. So much insight into the mind of a species from someone who's never trained a single chimp.
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