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  #21  
Old 07-10-2008, 08:36 AM
RedyreRottweilers
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Originally Posted by borzoimom View Post
Well having therapy dogs and not service dogs but at least I can tell you how I train heel.. You start walking with the dog on your left. Dogs name "heel".. and start walking at a good clip but not too fast. ie the speed of the breed you have.. As soon as the dog forges forward, I do an abrupt about turn, heading in the opposite direction.. This is the beginning- do not forge ahead or behind.. Once you get this down, then I add something to perfect the heel where they should be. IN a heel the dogs shoulder should be at your leg. Not only does this teach not to pull but also to watch you. As soon as the dog gets back in the right position- verbal praise ( calm to keep concentration- ie ' good boy..."..) Keep training sessions short- and always best to end on a good note.
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Originally Posted by borzoimom View Post
In rereading my post this morning, I realized it could very well give the wrong impression than what I meant. The posts that followed it summerized it well.
To OP- follow the advice given afterwards.
I don't think anyone summarized you.

Where I have done my little bit of training, beginning heeling is taught generally with exercises done IN PLACE, teaching the dog heel position, attention and focus BEFORE MOVEMENT.

Heel position is anywhere from the head to the withers of the dog.

The AKC defines heel position as:
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CHAPTER 2. REGULATIONS FOR PERFORMANCE AND JUDGING

Section 18. HEEL POSITION, as defined in these regulations applies whether the dog is sitting, standing, lying down, or moving at heel. The dog should be at the handler's left side directly in line with the direction the handler is facing. The area from the dog's head to shoulder is to be in line with the handler's left hip. The dog should be close to, but not crowding, its handler so that the handler has freedom of motion at all times.
Most people train for the ear to be at the side seam of your pants. The dog should be about 4" from your leg, parallel to you and your direction of movement.

So a just a few questions if you don't mind, since you have asserted you are a licensed trainer, Borzoimom.

How does doing abrupt turns (which result in the puppy hitting the end of the leash) teach a dog not to pull and to look at you?

Do you feel that training attention is important? If so, how do you go about teaching this to a puppy?

How does saying "HEEL" to an untrained puppy result in that puppy learning to heel?

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Originally Posted by borzoimom View Post
Once you get this down, then I add something to perfect the heel where they should be.
What is this something you are talking about?

With your level of experience with training drug detection dogs, and your many years of training and showing dogs, if you can find the time to go over these questions, maybe we can all learn from you.

Thanks in advance!
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  #22  
Old 07-10-2008, 09:04 AM
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  #23  
Old 07-10-2008, 12:40 PM
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I seriously wished I knew about different methods of training when I had Pepper. The jerk thing didn't work at all for us.

Pixie, I have no advice more than what anyone else has said. But I think that is SO cool that Sawyer will be a service dog.
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  #24  
Old 07-11-2008, 07:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedyreRottweilers View Post
So a just a few questions if you don't mind, since you have asserted you are a licensed trainer, Borzoimom.

How does doing abrupt turns (which result in the puppy hitting the end of the leash) teach a dog not to pull and to look at you?

Do you feel that training attention is important? If so, how do you go about teaching this to a puppy?

How does saying "HEEL" to an untrained puppy result in that puppy learning to heel?



What is this something you are talking about?

With your level of experience with training drug detection dogs, and your many years of training and showing dogs, if you can find the time to go over these questions, maybe we can all learn from you.

Thanks in advance!
I'm wondering this too. Still baffled why'd you suggest yanking around a 10 wk old puppy..
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  #25  
Old 07-13-2008, 08:14 PM
RedyreRottweilers
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How are you coming along with the pup, Pixie?
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  #26  
Old 07-14-2008, 01:10 PM
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Angelique Angelique is offline
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Wow Red. Really going in for the kill, huh?

I don't use treats to teach the heel. Saying the word "heel" during the exercise works through classical conditioning. Dogs are great social and associative learners, not lemon-brained idiots only motivated by selfish greed.

Changing directions - moving into the dog to get them to yeild space, moving away from the dog to get them following you, or zig-zagging - doesn't have to be done "Koehler" style. It can be done slowly and gently (especially with youngsters who are learning). This is more about getting them to watch and follow your changes than to jerk them around or step on them, for not.

Lighten up!
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  #27  
Old 07-14-2008, 08:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Angelique View Post
I don't use treats to teach the heel. Saying the word "heel" during the exercise works through classical conditioning. Dogs are great social and associative learners, not lemon-brained idiots only motivated by selfish greed.
I really wish you would explain a little clearer how you teach heel through classical conditioning. Very curious now.
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  #28  
Old 07-14-2008, 09:42 PM
RedyreRottweilers
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Angelique View Post
Wow Red. Really going in for the kill, huh?

I don't use treats to teach the heel. Saying the word "heel" during the exercise works through classical conditioning. Dogs are great social and associative learners, not lemon-brained idiots only motivated by selfish greed.

Changing directions - moving into the dog to get them to yeild space, moving away from the dog to get them following you, or zig-zagging - doesn't have to be done "Koehler" style. It can be done slowly and gently (especially with youngsters who are learning). This is more about getting them to watch and follow your changes than to jerk them around or step on them, for not.

Lighten up!

I'm interested also in your definition of classical conditioning and how you use it to teach heeling to a dog.

And I can tell you right now, almost every dog I have ever trained is highly motivated by selfish greed. All dogs are innocently selfish. Dogs work for food because food is survival, and taps into that basic drive. Same reason those big mammals at Sea World work for bites of fish.

I gave my training advice. If you would care to offer some, you have the floor.

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  #29  
Old 07-14-2008, 09:44 PM
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well if you don't use rewards... then you use punishment. Those are your only two options.

So if you would rather your dog works for you out of fear of punishment then by all means don't use treats or toys. (or life rewards)
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  #30  
Old 07-14-2008, 10:33 PM
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Angelique Angelique is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dekka View Post
well if you don't use rewards...
Where did I say I don't use rewards?

Unless, one believes treats are the only item a dog finds rewarding.
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Reward the good, ignore the bad, and always remember to duck during the temper tantrums!

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Here's to you, Jane Goodall. So much insight into the mind of a species from someone who's never trained a single chimp.
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