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Old 05-24-2008, 09:41 PM
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PWCorgi PWCorgi is offline
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Default Questions about contacting IzFro's breeder...

It's something I've wanted to do since they were wee little pups, but I've just now worked up the guts to actually do it and I'd like some advice on how to go about it.

For those of you who don't know, a little information:

Izzy and Frodo sire comes from a respected and well known corgi breeder. She health tests her dogs, has many titles in different venues (herding, obedience, agility) on her dogs and most of them are conformation champions.

The thing is, their dam was pretty much the opposite. I found them through the AKC website classifieds, my mom called and told her we were interested in a puppy as a pet and as an agility/obedience partner, and she willingly gave us both Izzy and Frodo as a 2 for the price of 1 deal (they were the last 2 puppies, and at 14 weeks I think they were growing out of their cute puppy stage). I haven't been able to find any health records through any of the databases, nobody in the corgi world has heard of their "kennel" before, they didn't want me to use their kennel name on the pups, the dam is just a family pet with no titles, etc. The only thing she mentioned about the sire when we were there was that it came from a friend of theirs. I lost contact with the breeder when the puppies were about 5 months old (had emailed pictures to them up to that point) when they stopped answering emails and wouldn't answer the phone number they had provided, so asking them anything is out of the picture.

And before you all start the flame fest, I am well aware that how I went about this was all wrong, but you can believe that I am paying for it with all of Frodo's physical and behavioral problems.

Anyway, I'd like to contact their sire's breeder and basically ask for an explanation as to how/why the breeding occurred, why she would allow her titled, Ch. stud to breed with a housepet, if she knows where the dam's owners are now and contact info on them. I'd also like to learn more about their lines, etc. My problem is that I'm worried about seeming like I am questioning her ethics (which essentially, I guess I am) and accusing her of being a bad breeder. If it turns out to be a misunderstanding or something like that I really would like to have a reationship with her, send her pics/updates on Izzy and Frodo if that is something she would like, so I don't want to drive her away.

I am planning on contacting her through email, I know she attends the local dog show and competed with her dogs there, but I'm a wimp and I know I'd never talk to her in person, I'd chicken out. My plan now is to tell her first about the accomplishments of Izzy and Frodo (CGC, therapy title, flyball, etc) and then ask about the breeding. But then I think maybe I should try and send a few emails (if she responds) and then ask. GAH, I don't know...I think I'm putting too much effort into this, it just makes me nervous. Any suggestions would be awesome.
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Old 05-24-2008, 10:10 PM
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Paige Paige is offline
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Breath child. Then just do it. It will be a lot less scary if you send her an e-mail and go for it. The worst she could do is not respond, right?
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Old 05-25-2008, 08:07 PM
doberkim doberkim is offline
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Well, I think if you phrased it how you did in the post, it will sound very accusatory and she will definitely be offended. Have you checked the AKC database to make sure the dam has no titles?

If you want to contact the sire's owner and find out more information, why don't you email her and say you didn't really research it very well when you first got them, but now you are more educated and very happy that he is their sire, but you aren't really finding much information on the bitch - could she potentially help out with some information, since you cannot find her owner? Does she know any titles on her, the health testing, or the goals behind the breeding? I would ask more questions, rather than demanding to know "why she allowed her stud to be bred"
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Old 05-25-2008, 08:17 PM
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Thanks Paige!

Thanks Kim, I'll definitally be taking your advice when I contact her.
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1.5 year old Jack Russell Terrier
Gimme Drugs Not Hugs RL1 "Frodo"
8 year old Pembroke Welsh Corgi


*All Siri's rally/obedience titles are to be considered handled by Megan,
because ain't nobody (read: me) got time or skills fo' dat.
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Old 05-25-2008, 08:20 PM
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You might be pleasantly surprised, too. If the sire is as reputable as it sounds, she's going to want to know about Frodo, because those are her lines in use there as well. If it happened once, it could happen again.
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Old 05-25-2008, 08:31 PM
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I sure hope so Zoom, though I'm not going to get my hopes up. With some help from corgipower I'm learning that the sire's breeder may not be what she seems.
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Gimme Drugs Not Hugs RL1 "Frodo"
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*All Siri's rally/obedience titles are to be considered handled by Megan,
because ain't nobody (read: me) got time or skills fo' dat.
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Old 05-25-2008, 10:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PWCorgi View Post
I'd like to contact their sire's breeder and basically ask for an explanation as to how/why the breeding occurred, why she would allow her titled, Ch. stud to breed with a housepet
It'd be more common than you'd want to know. Often the why is money. In this case if they are friends, possibly not. There's a lot of not so pretty, not health tested overall nothing to write home about dogs being sold mainly on the fact that the puppies are CH sired.. It's crappy.. wish it didn't happen, but I've seen a lot of it. Some of which are breeders on other forums I visit. Skeazy on both parts really, kinda wish some stud owners were more particular, though many have a long list of requirements and are fantastic.
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Old 05-26-2008, 05:30 AM
doberkim doberkim is offline
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The other thing to consider is, looking on the bright side, maybe she was titled in other venues - maybe she has APDT, CPE, NADAC, CDSP, etc titles that wouldn't show up in the AKC database...
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Old 05-26-2008, 11:29 AM
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I was in a similar situation, and it took me MONTHS to ask the question. I still don't have a full answer, but I think I'm getting there.

I lost contact with Bailey's breeder for a couple of years. Then I got in contact with her half sister (same dam, same breeder) and started talking to her breeder again. I wouldn't say we're friends or anything but we talk. I ask questions that aren't rude, and he answers them. I tell him about what we do together and how much fun she is. I still haven't told him a few things, because they aren't really important in the grand scheme of things. Her dam is dead, and Bailey was from her third (and last) litter.

But, from that connection with her breeder I've now met the sire's owner/breeder. This is the person I have a lot of questions for that I've just started to ask. I'm on far better terms (and take tracking lessons from) Bailey's other half sister's (same sire this time) breeder/owner.

I think it is best to just approach the subject lightly and wait a while. Build a relationship first if you want to get anywhere.

If you look at my dogs pedigree, you'll see she's from the same situation as your two. Conformation champion on sire's side and erm... just dogs on dams.

She's from far better parents than Buzz though, so I consider those two years between them something learned and they've both taught me a lot about what to look for in a future breeder.
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Old 05-26-2008, 08:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MafiaPrincess View Post
It'd be more common than you'd want to know. Often the why is money. In this case if they are friends, possibly not. There's a lot of not so pretty, not health tested overall nothing to write home about dogs being sold mainly on the fact that the puppies are CH sired.. It's crappy.. wish it didn't happen, but I've seen a lot of it. Some of which are breeders on other forums I visit. Skeazy on both parts really, kinda wish some stud owners were more particular, though many have a long list of requirements and are fantastic.
I've noticed it, too. It makes me SO ANGRY. You know why? Because I couldn't convince my friend that breeding her puppy mill dog was a bad thing, because a breeder with Champions wanted to stud their dog out to her.. and if they have champions, they must be right! I mean, they would NEVER be in it for the money.. no no no. Impossible. They just thought dog-reactive, resource-guarding, bratty, oversized, duck-footed, calf-kneed, swaybacked Sabrina was the *BEST* bitch for their breeding!

Okay, so maybe swaybacked is an exaggeration. But her topline, even if she was perfect otherwise, would be enough for me to scream "NO NO DON'T BREED HER!"

</off topic>

Anyhow, good luck. I'm not very tactful and am glad I'm not in your shoes. I'm sure I'd make their breeder hate me.
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